Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by rstrats, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Hi Wil —
    Not entirely sure of the view of John in that link?

    Matthew was a rabbi, writing to the Jewish-Christian community in Syria. Mark (probably John Mark) is basically Peter's gospel, or rather his primary source is Peter. I quite like the idea that Mark wrote based on Peter's catechetical lectures when he was under house arrest in Rome. (This also explains the addenda to the end of the gospel.) Luke was addressed to a Gentile Christian community.

    John's audience I would have thought primarily Jewish — it assumes a knowledge of Hebrew scripture and history — and the supposed 'gnostic' themes (which actually pre-date the emergence of those themes in 'the Gnostics') are now seen to be there in Hebrew mystical speculation.

    The problem with all this is it's based on theory. Not bad in itself, but one has to be careful that a theory is not a construct that one shoe-horns the evidence into, to arrive at a neat solution.

    Consider: The earliest writings are Paul's, and Paul speaks about the gospel existing before he started preaching. Indeed, he had to contend that his message was as equal to the teaching the Christian communities had received.

    Consider: There are elements in John that appear more fully developed in the synoptics, and in any normal circumstance this is evidence that the John materials predate the synoptics. Some have put John as early as 50AD. The argument of an advanced Christology means it must be late falls in the face of the theology in Paul's Letter to the Romans, which is no less sophisticated.

    Consider: The 'Q' materials have no evidence, no provenance, nada. What makes the idea appealing is it offers a solution to the questions of origin, and in the absence of any other solution, suddenly Q assumes importance. To the point where one might say 'Q' must have existed, because we can't answer the question without it.

    The elephant in the room is, of course, oral transmission.
     
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  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I find oral tradition concept interesting. You think of them telling the same story over and over. But when you look at the book, we have four stories of the Gospel, and two of Noah and Genesis, all of distinct differences
     
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  3. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    RJM,
    re: "...as @Thomas observes, the written reference you seek is Matthew 12.40 itself. It's a perfect example really of 'three days' being colloquially written as 'three days and three nights'."


    Even if Matthew 12:40 were referring to a 6th day of the week crucifixion - and there is no proof that it is - it would only be one example where a night was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of a night time could have occurred. However, this topic is concerned with multiple examples, i.e., the commonality of such usage. See post #150.
     
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    I can't provide them. However I'm not a scholar of ancient languages.

    But I do believe the points and explanations gathered in this year's replies to your query should be enough to convince most anyone not to disregard the whole resurrection narrative on account of this single 'and three nights' phrase alone?

    (post edited)
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  5. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    RJM,
    re: "I can't provide them."

    OK, no problem. Perhaps someone new looking in may know of examples.



    re: "But I do believe the points and explanations gathered in this year's replies to your query should be enough to convince most anyone not to disregard the whole resurrection narrative on account of this single 'and three nights' phrase alone?"

    To answer your question, how would I know if you believe that? But that's a question for a different topic.
     
  6. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    It's safe in the Almighty. The universe turns on
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  7. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    If the shoe fits your foot then the intent of the allegory is risen in you, the son of man, marred clay reformed to contain a everlasting new testament, the lamb/innocents slain from when the spiritual law started building the foundation of your world which started at your dawn of higher awareness. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? same stories that happen in God's house made with out hands.
    It's my story and I'm sticking to it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  8. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.
     
  9. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    I need to add to post #150 - "and who thinks that a calendar day began at sunset".
     
  10. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    In thinking about it, I realize that it doesn't make any difference with regard to sunset versus sunrise; there would still be a lack of a third night with a 6th day of the week crucifixion.
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    At last! :D
     
  12. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Thomas,
    re: "At last!"

    I'm afraid I don't understand. I wonder if you could explain what you mean?
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I would, but I fear we'd just end up in a repetition of previous discussions.
     
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  14. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Thomas,
    re: "
    I would, but I fear we'd just end up in a repetition of previous discussions."

    No need for discussion. Just tell me what "at last" refers to.
     
  15. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Someone new looking in may know of examples.
     

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