U.S. Air Force Takes a Look at Teleportation

Discussion in 'Science and the Universe' started by alexa, Nov 4, 2004.

  1. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    I have figured out the problem. The solution, however is another matter altogether.

    The computer needed to calculate both the position of atoms and what they are doing at a particular point in time, must be a parallel as opposed to serial, type computer. To jump to the chase, this computer must act like the human mind, but be as fast as a serial computer.

    The internet, approximates such a computer (though too slow and distracted). Bear with me here for a moment. If every computer linked to the internet were to focus on one set of unique data requirements, then send that information to a central point of execution (and if they all were coordinated to do so at once), we might just be able to teleport an object from one place in space/time to another, in more or less the same condition, as it was before teleportation began.

    This is with today's computers I might add. With tomorrow's computers linked web wide, we could feasably teleport a life form, instantaneously from one place to another. Not only that, but we could "correct" physical anomolies within that life form, and we could keep that life form's pattern in a buffered memory...

    Of course this leads to ethics and morality (as usual). I mean, if I have a pattern of someone, what stops me from duplicating that pattern into another someone that is identical to the first? And the second "someone"...who's spirit/soul would he have? If any...

    Now the concept of God would come into play. Are we unique, or just a patterned life form? :eek:

    Like the three laws of robotics, we would have to come up with the laws of telportation.

    1.A buffered pattern could only be used once (upon successful completion of the teleportation of an individual, the buffered pattern would be erased. If not, then clones could be created (and considered as less than human).

    2. A person's buffered pattern can not be held in order to regenerate an individual who has died. That would destroy the humanity of the individual (dignity of the uniqueness of the person), and again we would have a clone.

    3. Teleportation must not be used to restore an individual to a previous state of health (buffered pattern again), as the resulting individual would not be the same person as before. Healed physically? perhaps. Memory intact? no. Same person? no.

    Why do I bring this up, and present such dismal issues? We now have the capability to do all of the above (albiet roughly). In short order we will be able to refine the technique (or should I say, capable).

    We can map DNA, of an individual, and isolate them from others. We can scan the human body, down to the last molecule. We can isolate a particular molecule of a human body and observe its actions. We can transport/teleport parts of a subject matter with series based computers. We do have a working model of a parallel based computer system. We are curious, and we have those who are less than honorable.

    Got news for y'all. If I can put two and two together, what makes you think others much smarter than me can't? ;)

    my thoughts

    v/r

    Q
     
  2. alexa

    alexa somewhere in time

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello Q,

    Did you know human cloning is as per FDA's rules under the Public Health Service Act and the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act since 1998 ? A sponsor who wants to perform a research on human cloning has to submit for an IND (Investigation of a New Drug application form). In other words, clones are new drugs. :rolleyes:

    I still dream I could teleporte myself wherever I wish to go. No need to gas anymore. :D
     
  3. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    7,305
    Likes Received:
    840
    Miowrrowrrowr! ( :kitty: for "Alexa!")

    *alexa finds herself thoroughly pounced by the IF cattery, each vying for her attention, the "Oriental" pure/mixed breeds more vocal than the rest*

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  4. alexa

    alexa somewhere in time

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    0
    *Alexa looks around her and take the wiskas bag from the counter: I know, I know little kitties, you're hungry again *

    I got your mail, thanks Phyllis. :)
     
  5. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    3
    Just a couple of nitpicks (yes, I'm a Trekkie). The first pilot was actually called "The Cage" and starred Jeffery Hunter in the lead of Pike. Th pilot, which NBC didn't like because they wanted an "action" pilot, was later included as a two-part episode called "The Menagerie" during the regular series run, involving a story in which Mr. Spock (who also appeared in the pilot) commits treason for attempting to bring Captian Pike back to Talos IV.

    Also, Gene Roddenbury didn't have the name Captain Kirk back in 1959. I believe the original name he had in mind was Captian April.

    And now back to your regularly scheduled programming......which ought to be Star Trek.
     
  6. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    3

    There is another problem. How would the human soul be transported to the "new' body as well?
     
  7. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Captain Robert April...;) And in order to get an agent's attention with his script Roddenberry drove his police motorcylce either up to a bar, or into the bar, walked up the agent and slapped the manuscript on his chest and said "You had better read it, all of it". Then promptly walked out and drove away.

    "The Cage" never aired on tv (until the 30th anneversary of ST). In fact when it finally did air, it was partially in black and white and missing some of the special effects and sounds at times, because they had scrapped it. Some one did alot of work picking pieces from the scraps on the floor and combining them with the part that was the "Menagerie". I have a copy of it.

    The First official airing of ST was on 8 September 1966, and was titled "The Man Trap". Dr. McCoy falls for a salt sucker...(lol):eek: :rolleyes: :cool: :D

    v/r

    Q
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,225
    Likes Received:
    2,160
    As the soul found its way into this body...I would think the soul would have less trouble keeping up than the parts would...

    The intersting thing I remember reading about what they are currently accomplishing is they aren't teleporting anything...tis more like faxing or emailing a picture...I read about some arrangement of molecules being relayed to another space where the machine at the other end grabbed available molecules and arranged them in a simliar fashion...

    So the sending station retains the origional....yikes...
     
  9. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    I'm coming into this late, but have been waiting to see if my points might be relevant ... and now they are. First off, Appollonius of Tyana is just one example of various figures throughout history (Count Allessandro Cagliostro is another) who have supposedly demonstrated the capacity of "bi-location." Accounts were recorded which indicated his presence in literally more than one place at the same time. I find no trouble believing this whatsoever.

    Second, to say a bit more in the same vein as Poh (post #16), there is a higher siddhi (psychic ability) spoken about in esoteric teachings (and the Vedas too, I should imagine), called kriyashakti - roughly, the "power to make." One definition reads as follows:
    " `Kriyasakti - the mysterious power of thought which enables it to produce external, perceptible, phenomenal results by its own inherent energy. The ancients held that any idea will manifest itself externally if one's attention (and Will) is deeply concentrated upon it; similarly, an intense volition will be followed by the desired result' "
    An idea or ability that goes hand-in-hand with kriyashakti, is the advanced ability to create a mayavirupa - or "body of illusion." When these are combined, an adept or advanced yogi is capable of appearing twice in the same room if s/he so desires. And there are accounts of this having happened, and having been witnessed by a large group of people, as recently as 75 years ago. To my knowledge, no one has dared to attempt this in public, however, or before a camera (curious to know - would the camera "see" the illusion too? hmmm ...) - nor are they likely to, for some time to come.

    Third, I could not begin to fully understand the methodology involved in creating a mayavirupa, although it's not as beyond us as we might think. Astrally, the ability is not so rare, but to create one physically, though, is perhaps a bit more challenging. This leads to something I wanted to say relevant to the issue of "faxing" substance, and the soul question, which is also a consideration in cloning. If we're contemplating the mayavirupa, only one manifestation would be "real;" the other would be a copy, perhaps particle by particle (with just enough composition to convey the illusion - and not a particle more). It's the reason there can be only one true manifestation that matters here ...

    Occult teachings have presented for over a hundred years that our entire physical organism is "rebuilt" in each new incarnation - save for one particle (or technically, three). This is termed the "permanent atom," and it is said to accompany us throughout each one of many thousands of human incarnations - but not into the great beyond, since it is "dropped" once we finally leave Earth's evolution. The atom being spoken of is an occult atom, which corresponds - to the best of my ability to discern - to science's electron, or perhaps even a quark. Either way, I've posted about it on other threads, and its image can be googled under "Babbitt's atom."

    Details aside, I believe this idea would solve the problem of the soul. The atom is not the soul, but it is regarded as the "mechanism," or material connection, between the soul and the body. In considering teleportation, which goes on every day without the use of any material technology whatsoever, we really only need to ask ourself - how would the permanent physical atom be transferred? Permanent atoms also exist upon the astral plane (our emotional component), the mental, and the spiritual planes. I know, this is a secular forum, but do you think the Air Force wouldn't be interested in any tradition - especially recent studies conducted under scientific conditions - which talks about these things? ;)

    The solution to part of the issue, it seems to me, has already been hinted at by wil, just now:

    If I may be so bold, this is exactly what the adept or advanced yogi does, during the creation of a mayavirupa, using kriyashakti. The process has been described in detail, in fairly careful, scientific terms, in even the older Theosophical writings. What is not explained, for obvious reasons, is how to "come by" the abilities necessary to "project" one's permanent atom to another location. So, even if we figured out how to coalesce the other 99.999999% of the body's substance on the other end, we would have to solve the problem of this one atom. I do not know when science will discover this ... but any failure to bear this in mind, would kill the (human) creature being teleported.

    Last point is quite related. Every religious teaching indicates the presence of even a "physical soul," let alone astral bodies, Spiritual bodies, and so forth. I prefer the Hebrew term nephesh, myself - or breath of life. There is nothing thinking, feeling, or really "spiritual" about the nephesh ... except that it is one small portion of the vast field (again, this is the scientific term that is increasingly gaining credibility, as in morphogenetic fields) in which we live, and move, and have our being - Planet Earth. We do not separate from the nephesh (or "etheric body") during life, for to do so, is by definition, death. When we astral travel, the nephesh, along with the dense physical body, are both left behind. Travel in the etheric body is not possible!

    So this presents us with another problem, or a more complicated version of the "permanent atom" problem. Not only must we make sure to relocate the permanent atom, but we must also ensure that the etheric body itself is reproduced. And since even our finest scientific equipment is still not capable of fully registering all the substance of the etheric body, how will we solve this problem? ;) Again, I feel certain they'll kill plenty of monkeys, and perhaps people, before they figure this one out - without a signficant breakthrough.

    Theoretically, the nephesh, too, could be reconstructed on the other end, since it, too, is "material" - just very, very fine. But the animating principle, which is the true breath of life - called prana, chi, elan vital, or simply "life itself" (physically) ... AHA! This we cannot duplicate, and as yet do not have the knowledge to "summon," although I do not doubt the military is working on it. When the question of cloning is considered, we do not have to solve this problem, since my best guess would be that the vital field already exists inseparably with any genetic material that is taken, and used for the clone. It just grows naturally (or develops, would be the better word). The question of the individual soul, and permanent atoms, for sheep - is non-existent, since neither are present, to the best of my knowledge. In the case of an individualized (highly evolved) cat, dog, elephant or monkey, however ... hmmmm, now I'm not so sure. But I do know, that if you are rich, you can already get a "RE-Pet." :eek: Very, very scary - but I find myself asking, How? :confused:

    cheers,

    andrew
     
  10. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    3
    However, "The Man Trap" was actually the fifth episode shot. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" was the second pilot and featured Kirk, Spock, Scottie, Sulu (as a biologist, not helmsman), but no "Bones". :(

    I viewed the original "The Cage" that was released for the special. It was refreshing to see it in the context of the pilot rather than in the wrap around story in "The Menagerie". Still, "The Menagrie" won the coveted Hugo award. It was ST:TOS's only two-part episode.:)

    Two good books on ST:TOS are "The Making of Star Trek" by Stephen E. Whitfield and "The World of Start Trek" by David Gerrold, If they are still in print or available.
     
  11. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    3
    My question in regards to human cloning is would we also clone the human soul or even that bit of "permanent atom" you refer to? If so, are we two or one with the clone?

    What if they made our clone at the other end of the transport, could we not just try to figure our how to transport our "permanent atom" and then we can pop up and then go look at the Eiffel Tower on our vacation in Paris? It would solve the problem of trying to transport the whole body.
     
  12. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    Well, this is what's so neat about speculating about these things. We have so many unanswered questions right now! ;) lol But you remind me of something neat I haven't thought of for awhile, with the Paris vaction bit ... (below)

    As for the soul, my belief is that it is literally outside of time and space, as the usual phrase goes ... yet also outside of something else very important: concrete thought. Esotericists "place" it (not spatially, just relationally) in the "upper" (again, what does this mean) portions of the mental world - in every bit of 5 dimensions. It corresponds to the "Temple of Solomon," speaking symbolically.

    But the real irony, or paradox about the soul, is that although esoteric students refer to it is the true "Individual" (vs. our mortal, ephemeral, projected personalities) ... in truth a deeper or more correct understanding is that there is literally one soul for all of Humanity. I confess that this understanding is utterly beyond me, and perhaps that is why concrete mind (which is particular for each different person, obviously) cannot fully grasp this Unified or Wholistic nature of the soul.

    We do all seem to have various types of recognition of this, mostly being the combined information from our feelings, thoughts, inspirations & illuminations (which come from "Higher Mind" - or Soul), as well as from the Intuition (a Divine faculty of knowing, belonging to the Soul at the level of its true Unity, beyond Mind altogether).

    One metaphor that I like, in considering the relationship of our Individual Soul (the Reincarnating principle, if one believes in that) to the true, wholistic Soul of all Humanity, is that the latter is a giant disco-ball :p ... sparkling and whirling and reflecting literally billions of different colors, lights, experiences, etc. Each of us, then, as a soul - is like one tiny facet of that disco-ball. Sounds kinda wild I guess, but at least that part corresponds with life as we know it! ;) lol

    Of course, a less chaotic version would be to ponder the same relationship as revealed in one of those neat little hanging crystal things - the really big ones, which convey the above idea somewhat more eloquently, and allow us to understand how this is not Borg-like ... but much, much more beautiful. :) (Had to throw a little STNG in there for the mix!)

    Not meaning to get too far away from teleportation, the above might help to answer the question about how/whether to transfer Souls. To be clear: imho, it's a non-issue, since the soul as such occupies neither time, space, or even ordinary human thought. The portions which do, are the ones we need to consider ... and other than nephesh (the etheric body, or morphogenetic field, and its counterpart, the flesh), there are the emotional double & aura, plus the mental double & aura. Mind, the last of these, can probably be excluded, being outside of time ... but what about the "double" and aura - in the astral?

    My understanding of permanent atoms is that only one of these can exist, as the extension, or point of contact, between each soul and the physical (or astral) world. Quite simply, we will not likely develop the power to clone/copy or (re)construct these, because they represent some of the most evolved (physical) matter in existence! To be able to duplicate one would require, in my estimation, literally God-like powers ... and I have never read of this happening. If it did, then my guess would be that by definition, two human beings would exist, exact duplicates, and both equally the incarnation of the same soul. :eek: This begins to get complicated though ... (or is it? If there really is ONE Human Soul, isn't this simply - Reality? ;) )

    Wil really sparked something by mentioning this reassembling/coalescence process. The literature I am familiar with describes what happens when an advanced being decides to "manifest" or materialize. Part of the difficulty involved is that not just any substance will do. What is required, when considering a human being - especially an advanced one - is the coalescence of matter which corresonds precisely to the state of evolution of the being involved. Certainly spiritual evolution is what's meant, but the notion that this does not have a parallel at the levels of mind, emotions, and body ... is a foreign one to esoteric students.

    So in short, for a Master of the Wisdom (or a Paramahamsa - which means "Great Swan") to assemble his outermost body - even just to appear visible, let alone to become solid enough to touch - requires matter of an enormously developed quality. He cannot simply create it out of nothing, or convert the energy of a higher world, as this violates one or the other of very important laws (unbreakable!). In the first case, ex nihilo, nihil fit (out of nothing, nothing comes), but in the second case, this would be to create an artificial or arbitrary influx of energy-become-substance, which I'm thinking has something to do with free will! I'm a little out of my depth :p - so this is just a guess.

    But inasmuch as vision of Angels and various Heavenly figures have been described, isn't it usually (or often) true that they appear inchoate, somewhat vague, or to use the best word of all - subtle? The above might explain somewhat the reason for this. Devas/angels abide by these same laws, even if it is their Orders whom and which are responsible for the weaving & arrangement of matter (on all the planes) to begin with!

    Too much for me to take in ... I'm afraid ... but how about a nice Parisian vacation? The part you reminded me of, Dondi, is a vision of the semi-distant future as provided by Robert Monroe in one of his latter two books (either Far Journeys or Ultimate Journey). He describes a simpler solution to this problem. Humanity having by this point (okay, it's a long way off) evolved to the degree that many/most of our responsibilities now require us to be out of the physical body, he describes a scene, or a condition, in which people "leave them" propped up against trees, or in other settings conducive to what is required. Safety is a non-issue, he's describing a vision of Responsible Humanity, not the planet as it now exists. Violence would be unthinkable!

    But in short, I suppose the term communistic or shared possession is pretty much what applies. Some people might be shocked, frightened, or offended to even consider it. Absurd, I say, because - although I'm not sure most of us are ready for this yet, I admire the virtues and qualities (don't we all) that would be required for this to happen. The "this" is simply that, if I'm out and about, say somewhere in India, and the nature of my work unexpectedly requires that I make physical contact, I won't need to physically travel, or even teleport. The teleportation is already accomplished, we do it every night, during sleep, and also permanently, at death (or until later). So what do I do? I "borrow" my fellow human's body for a bit. :D

    And it's as simple as that, though again, obviously not quite on the horizon for us until many years hence. Presumably, the purposes involved here would be "business" or service-oriented. I'm wondering if we even could evolve to the point where a vacation in Paris would be proper, as seen through someone else's eyes - literally. lol It almost seems a contradiction in terms! But, perhaps at some point, once trust, peace and safety are the ABC of our existence ... "borrowing" someone "else's" body - for whatever purpose, however personal, will no longer seem as repulsive or frightening as it does at present. Fears, and legitimate spiritual or psychic threats, are current obstacles to anything like this happening yet, although I think there are cases throughout history where it has already occurred, long ago (even involving the most famous two individuals in human history! - but that's for another thread).

    Frankly, the idea is so profound and appealing to me .... that, combined with the basic understanding I've come to have of the nature of the Soul(s) - I have done my own speculating that this Vision is perhaps the tiniest glimpse of what life is like on the other planets. Esotericists regard most of the planets around us as "Sacred," while Earth and Mars are still non-sacred, although we are "on the cusp" of (one stage of) the great transition. What if the Humanities of these other planets (which obviously exist in non-physical matter) resemble somewhat Monroe's vision in terms of their relationship with one another. Telepathic rapport would be the least of their developments. And would we not agree, that only working in such an orchestrated, connected manner could the highest purposes of planetary evolution be pursued/accomplished? Hmmm ....

    Oops, the teleportation thing transports me into the only context in which I think it can/will/would fit. Sorry for the verbosity and such. But let's face it, either we evolve more closely to Gene Roddenberry's vision of a United Federation of (umm DUH Nations first, then) Planets ... or - like, umm ... this discussion, and all of them, will be moot. :eek::(

    So Here's to Roddenberry, and a Peaceful Future for ALL!!! :)

    Namaskara,

    andrew
     
  13. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    That would be the moral issue (infact it was an issue in ST as well). Once the object or person appeared on the other end of the signal, the buffer patterns (by law), had to be wiped, or else another copy could be replicated.

    In ST The Next Generation "Relics", retired engineer CDR Scott crashed on the surface of a Dyson's Sphere, in a remote part of space. There were three survivors, but they knew they would not receive help, so Scott rigged the transporter to draw energy from cell reserves, cut all power to the rest of the ship, and had the three of them dematerialized and their patterns kept in the buffer. In order to keep the system from wiping their buffer patterns, he caused the computer to continuously run a system diagnostics routine. They're patterns remained in the buffer for 80 years. When the NG crew found the ship and determined what Scott had done, they disengaged the diagnostics sequence and brought two of the three back. The third's pattern had decayed to the point where he could not be brought back alive.

    In another NG episode, LT Ryker was being transported up to the ship, he made it however, part of the signal was reflected off the magnetic ionosphere (or something like that), back to the planet surface, resulting in a second LT Ryker, who stayed there for 12 years...alone. Same man, two different lives. Each questioned if they had individual souls and who was the other. It was settled when they agreed that they were literally twins and thus, brothers with a common reference that diverged at the point of transportation.

    v/r

    Q
     
  14. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    I opine that if matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed, and that we do it every day (though crudely), we will one day be able to convert matter into energy, and back into matter elsewhere, negating the need for creating clones.

    v/r

    Q
     
  15. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,612
    Likes Received:
    2
    I just found this thread.

    Quantum computers and quantum computing will make this a reality, and the first such rudimentary computer was demonstrated in Switzerland a few years ago. It was able to bi-locate atoms of matter instantaneously, but the process was random, unpredictable, and not easily controlled. In quantum mechanics this capability is called "quantum complimentarity" Theoretically there exists a twin to every atom in our universe, and they are instantly interchangeable under certain conditions, regardless of the time and space between them.

    About fifteen years ago there was a convention of mechanical engineers in Chicago that I am familiar with. At that conference it was predicted that within twenty five years pizzas could be delivered hot to one's home using such devices and principles.

    Could it be that Domino's will be at the cutting edge of science ? Or could it be that our USAF guys and gals are pizza crazy.

    Live long and prosper !

    flow....:p
     
  16. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    3
    They better get crackin'. They only have ten years left before their prediction pays off.
     
  17. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,612
    Likes Received:
    2
    They might already be doing it at places like Area 51, and we'd never know it. Until certain people and corporations decide that it's a non-threatenting technology, and that it will be beneficial and not detrimental to their interests, it will likely remain hidden. True invention is non-obvious.

    flow....:cool:
     
  18. YO-ELEVEN-11

    YO-ELEVEN-11 Watcher

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    0
    Has anyone heard of the experiments the Army is doing with soldiers mentally exploding goat hearts in effort to make "Jedi Soldiers"?
     
  19. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    3
    No, but in they were bending spoons during the "remote viewing" experiments in Fort Meade during the 70s, 80s, and early 90s.

    But exploding hearts would make an effective weapon if one didn't have to stop and concentrate in the heart of battle.

    "Halt, or I'll rip your heart to shreds!"
     
  20. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Violation of the Seven Noahidic laws...Even in war, that would be unethical.

    my thoughts

    v/r

    Q
     

Share This Page