Revelation 12 was fulfilled.

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by donnann, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Dear donna,
    There is no "gather the elect" in Rev 12. There are two wings given to the woman in order for her to fly into the wilderness, while her offspring make war with the dragon. The woman stands for the women who "gave birth to the male child". The woman was in the wilderness 1260 days. That would be Judah, the tribe of Yeshua. Rev 12 is about 1/3 of the stars falling, the devil cast to earth. It is after the "Day of the Lord" that the devil is persecuting the woman. It is before the "Day of the Lord" that the moon turns into blood. And you didn't mention the sun into darkness (Mt 24:29). An example: Beijing Goes Dark At Noon: Storm And Smog Meet To Darken Afternoon Sky In China [PHOTOS]

    As for your "moon into blood" of Joel 2:31, that refers to just prior to the "awesome Day of the Lord", in which "there will be those who escape. This is paralleled in Mt 24, whereas "THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE IT'S LIGHT", and this will appear just before the "Son of Man will appear in the sky", and then "His angels will gather together is elect". This all happens after the "Tribulation". The "Day of the Lord" brings about the gathering of the elect and the gathering of the nations upon which judgment is passed. (Joel 3:2) & (Mt 24:50-51) That will not be a good day for anyone, and especially for anyone with false hopes, based on false prophets. Mal 4:1," For behold , the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoes will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,".
     
  3. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    I know there is no gather the elect in revelation 12 but there is in revelation. I think the 4 blood moons are the 4 angels in revelation and that those signs have to do with fulfillment. Revelation 12 has already been fulfilled. I believe its a matter of interpretation. Revelation is a revealing of gods kingdom. Fire in the holy bible represents holy spirit. The bible is not totally meant to be taken literally. If you take it literally then you come out with the opposing meaning of what god is and does. Seal openings and bindings are miracles and may sound horrible if you take them literally but are symbolically meant to mean something good. The fact that revelation 12 had already been fulfilled is astounding. Seal openings and bindings take days months and years.
     
  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Dear Donna,
    Revelation 12:13, refers to the dragon being thrown out of heaven down to earth. His time is limited to time, times and 1/2 a time. The dragon is not thrown out of heaven until just before the 1st resurrection, and the 1st judgment, and the 1000 year reign. (Rev 20:1-4) We are not under the reign of the son of man nor of the saints that were "beheaded", etc.(Rev 20:4) The kingdom of heaven, doesn't come to earth until the dragon is thrown into the abyss. This has not happened. The kingdom of God does not rule the earth at this time. (Rev 12:10) The ruler of the world remains the deceiver, and those who dwell on earth remain deceived.(Rev 13:14)

    As for not wanting to use the term fire, use another parable used in Mt 24:51, "and shall cut him pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; weeping shall be there and the gnashing of teeth." Is that better for you.
     
  5. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Well you cannot deny from the posting that revelation 12 has been fulfilled. Now there is a buzz on the internet about the 4 blood moons and coming eclipse and they happen on jewish holy days. The speculations are that the moons represent the 4 angels of revelation. Some speculate the rapture proceeds these events. As far as gnashing of teeth I go by what jesus said and did as an example to what scriptures really mean. Jesus cast out demons and I am sure there were gnashing of teeth when he did that and healed the person. My whole take on the bible and its meaning is that even if it sounds bad there is either a symbolic meaning to mean something literal or way to logically reason it as to not contradict god. God is love and everything he does comes from what he is. Jesus healed the sick he didn't make them sick, he raised the dead he didn't kill people, he preventing men from stoning a woman he didn't say I am sinless and cast a stone. If you do not reason scripture with a divine mind and use the carnal mind you will come out with the opposing meaning to what god is does and will do. Maybe that's why they say the bible can be the devils best weapon because it is so easy to mistranslate.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Dear Donna,
    I am not sure that the "Scriptural" part of the bible can be twisted into whatever point of view you choose to advocate. As for the part filled with the babel of the tares along side of the voices of the good wheat, well that can be affectively read any way you would choose to go. The digest version of the Law and the prophets is to "Love God... and your neighbor as yourself", and "as you judge others so shall you be judged". That means one is judged for their actions as they have judged others who have trespassed against them. (Rev 20:13) Fortunately, I am not the judge, but I get the impression that the immoral persons, the murderers, idolaters, and every who loves and practices lying, are going to get the wrong end of the stick. (Rev 22:15)

    And I can and do deny that Rev 12 has been fulfilled. Who is the woman, where is she, who were her children, and where is the dragon now? And if the authority of Christ has come, what is Barry Soeroto doing in the White House?
     
  7. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Its the bride of Christ. That same constellation along with the comet elenin was present at the birth of Christ and alerted the magi as to jesus whereabouts. The comet is really the star of Bethlehem. You can deny that revelation 12 happened but the fact is that it did and the woman is on earth but that is all I am going to say about that. It just wasn't revelation 12 but a series of events that occurred at that time that were miracle events along with the constellations and appearnces of Gabriel, Michael and Lucifel to the woman. The bible says there will be signs in the sun and the moon and the stars. What is going to happen next I have no idea but I do know miracles are revelation.
     
  8. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    Let us not forget Jesus who forgave sinners and loved everyone. Remember the bible says god sits on the mercy seat. There is no wrong end of the stick. The bible says there will be no more death or hades when the end of all the bad stuff finally happens. There will be no suffering. Its the end of suffering sickness and death not the end of life. This is the whole point of prophecy is to save life and make life everlasting.
     

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