22 Messages From Creationists To People Who Believe In Evolution

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by A Cup Of Tea, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I find it interesting while Thomas and I are quite different in our beliefs....neither of us have issues with Evolution or science. Neither of us are literalists when it comes to Genesis.

    What we are discussing (I believe) is a group of people who don't all really believe what they say. They are the ones that Thomas is often concerned of...those folks that cling to their version of belief a belief that would have the rug pulled out from under themselves if they actually looked at facts and science...

    So they put their fingers in their ears and ridicule the messenger....
     
  2. Paladin

    Paladin Purchased Bewilderment

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    Wow, pretty classic example of avoidance there kiddo.
     
  3. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I hope the answers are adequate, I'm tired.
     
  4. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    In my experience..."open-minded" people tend to be just as closed minded as any kind of religious fanatic...it's just another brand of fanaticism. Open-minded people tend to be only open to views that agree with their own.
     
  5. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    Not for me to say, but I would think they were helpful answers.
     
  6. Paladin

    Paladin Purchased Bewilderment

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    Apparently that has been your experience. However, your experience and what all open minded people tend to do are vastly different things.
     
  7. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    (emphasis mine, -jt3)

    "All" inclusive language I think is one common place where many, many folks of many different philosophies get caught up in logical fallacies.

    To my way of understanding...there are those who call themselves "open-minded" (as just another label, complete with congratulatory backslapping and cliquish snobbery) and those who *practice* being open-minded as a discipline, nevermind the label and associated clannishness.

    I like to think I use a healthy dose of the latter, while firmly eschewing the former.
     
  8. Gordian Knot

    Gordian Knot Being Deviant IS My Art.

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    If open minded people aren't, then by definition they are not open minded! I get what you mean about people who like to think they are though.

    I try mightily to remain open minded, and fail more than I would like. For me, it is hardest to keep an open mind when talking to someone who is closed minded.

    Just because someone is closed minded doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong. Right?

    Where I cannot be open minded at all is when I am discussing a subject where none of the other person's declarations are valid. Creationists fall into this category for me (sorry, Tea!).

    For example when discussing the age of the Earth and I hold to the idea that it is billions of years old, creationists are taught to use the come back "Were you there?" There is simply no way to take that as a serious response. It is obfuscation, and intended to be just that.
     
  9. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    I'm right there with you on that one. My, very personal, opinion is that creationists misunderstand the scientific method, and it's very hard to argue with ignorance. It's their intent that we might not agree about.
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Creationists ask us to be open minded....

    "What if we are right? Do you want to burn in hell?"
     
  11. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    That is about the most honest assessment I have heard to date.

    Right? To whom? Themselves? Of course. To others? Not necessarily. To reality? Boy, that is a minefield with no clearly marked path to get through!

    OK, but using the same criteria I can say the same about so many others...

    It is a common human practice, it is tribal to the core.
     
  12. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    The irony is not lost on me.

    What if we are right? Are you prepared to accept your rightful place in the universe, that it will all unfold and transpire as it is meant to in spite of what we puny humans think of ourselves? Are you prepared to accept that no amount of vague, hollow and empty threats will sway our minds from a direct association with the IS?
     
  13. Gordian Knot

    Gordian Knot Being Deviant IS My Art.

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    Juan said
    "OK, but using the same criteria I can say the same about so many others...
    It is a common human practice, it is tribal to the core."

    Perhaps. Though there is a difference between having a debate with someone who is honestly attempting to put their viewpoint across, as opposed to someone who uses misdirection to put their viewpoint across.

    For example, Thomas is a Catholic and he and I will never agree on the validity of Catholicism. But Thomas debates with honesty and from an informed perspective. Though we will not agree, I can admire him and his opinions.

    The creationists, however, have no informed opinion. Their arguments are purely speculative. Or, allow me to rephrase, I have never heard an opinion from a creationist that was not purely speculative. They have created something out of whole cloth in attempt to get their mythology accepted as science. They are trying to pull a fast one.
     
  14. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    "The creationists, however, have no informed opinion. Their arguments are purely speculative. Or, allow me to rephrase, I have never heard an opinion from a creationist that was not purely speculative. They have created something out of whole cloth in attempt to get their mythology accepted as science. They are trying to pull a fast one."

    --> That is a very good analysis.
     
  15. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    OK, I can go along with this.

    I suppose it is to be expected, this thread is about Creationists. But I can think of several "liberal" groups that "use misdirection to put their viewpoint across" on a routine basis, but calling them out on the subject would elicit widespread knee-jerk disapproval. In other words, in the current political climate, Creationists are low hanging fruit. Sure, they exhibit a common human foible. Why is that foible wrong for them but perfectly acceptable behavior from others?


    Spoiler alert: answer below
















    Politics.
     
  16. Gordian Knot

    Gordian Knot Being Deviant IS My Art.

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    I realize this is a really, really, really radical comment, but Gosh Darn It it just seems to me that anyone who uses misdirection should be called to the mat on it no matter who they are.
     
  17. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    Hey, easy there, do you want to get banned!?
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Exactly Juan...I think it is upto us to dictate how we live. And as I've said before, any 'creator' that demands my worship isn't worth my worship.
     
  19. Gordian Knot

    Gordian Knot Being Deviant IS My Art.

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    I know, Tea, I know. Really have to try and control these urges!

    Wil, your comment on worship is right on for me as well. Something I have believed for a long time.
     
  20. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    And any preacher who claims to speak for G-d in such matters is not speaking for G-d anyhow.
     

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