The Orange on the Seder Plate: How myth works

Jayhawker Soule

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Sorry. Yasher coach is a phrase much like L'Chaim and Mazal Tov - all relatively common.
 

wil

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I love the traditions and stories of a seder....

I love the discussions on which Hagadah to use....

The parental generations leading, while the kids fuss, and the grandparents tell of the way it used to be.... of the seder when they were kids...of when they were parents...of what their grandparents told them...
 

LincolnSpector

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Some 14 or 15 years ago, I attended a seder specifically geared for children. There were toy frogs and locusts, and sunglasses for the days of darkness. It was a blast.
 

Frrostedman

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Some 14 or 15 years ago, I attended a seder specifically geared for children. There were toy frogs and locusts, and sunglasses for the days of darkness. It was a blast.
I'm sure it was! I think it sounds great. You know, other than being God's chosen people (which is a blessing other ethnicities would love to have!), the Jews have very little to celebrate and be thankful for. I think it speaks volumes that one of the few things Israel can celebrate is the Holy destruction of one of their powerful enemies. I empathize with the plight of the Jews and Israel. Just as the bible made clear would happen, the entire world hates the Jews. I find it immensely disturbing that many Americans, particularly the LP's (Liberal Progressives), would celebrate the destruction of Israel. Just like the Muslims in the Middle East, many American LP's (though they claim to be humanitarian) salivate at the thought of "Zionists" being eliminated. They consider the Jews a scourge; a plague that needs to be eradicated for the betterment of mankind. You know. The same stuff Hitler went around proselytizing about. And I don't mean that as an attack. Again, I've witnessed it first hand and I'm really concerned and appalled by it. Most LP's I've come across believe the best foreign policy decision we could make right now would be to end our alliance with Israel. If I were to make an educated guess, I'd say that with the LP's in charge, USA-Israel relations and trust are at an all-time low. And that makes me sad. Since WWII, the Jews never needed a friendly, helping hand more than they do today.
 

LincolnSpector

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Sorry, Frost, but I couldn't disagree more.

First, let's deal with the "chosen people" thing. I've never been really comfortable with that (it sounds like the "one true religion stuff). But even Jews who accept it consider it a yoke, not a gift. It means we're held to a higher standard. There's the old joke "Couldn't God choose someone else for a change?"

I am a very leftwing progressive. I'm surrounded by other leftwing progressives. I live in Berkeley. I have seldom heard anything remotely Anti-Semitic from anyone in my community. Certainly nothing like the bigotry that comes out of Ann Coulter's filthy mouth, about how Americans should all be Christians.

Is there criticism of Israel? Yes. All countries do bad things, and all people of good will should criticize countries when they do bad things. And the occupation of the West Bank, with its settlements and random arrests, is a very bad thing that deserves criticism.

I'm also quick to criticize much of what the Palestinians do.
 

A Cup Of Tea

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Just like the Muslims in the Middle East...salivate at the thought of "Zionists" being eliminated. They consider the Jews a scourge; a plague that needs to be eradicated for the betterment of mankind.

Weeeell, I don't think this statement can stand on it's own, just wanted to point that out.
 

Marcialou

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I pretty much agree with LincolnSpecter in #25. I don't want to see Israel destroyed but I do take issue with a lot of its policies, particularly around the settlements. But if we're going to continue this discussion, perhaps we should start another thread under politics and society. We're getting off the main topic of the orange on the seder plate and the transmission of myth.
 

Jayhawker Soule

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I pretty much agree with LincolnSpecter in #25. I don't want to see Israel destroyed but I do take issue with a lot of its policies, particularly around the settlements. But if we're going to continue this discussion, perhaps we should start another thread under politics and society. We're getting off the main topic of the orange on the seder plate and the transmission of myth.

Good point.
 

iBrian

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I find it immensely disturbing that many Americans, particularly the LP's (Liberal Progressives), would celebrate the destruction of Israel.

I've never heard of any such people. What I have seen a lot of is criticism of the Israeli government. This is an different matter entirely.
 

LincolnSpector

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There are a lot of people in the US who want to define any criticism of the Israeli government as Anti-Semitism. To my mind, that's ridiculous.
 

Frrostedman

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There are a lot of people in the US who want to define any criticism of the Israeli government as Anti-Semitism. To my mind, that's ridiculous.
Likewise, there are a lot of people in the US who want to define any criticism of the Obama Administration as Racism. To my mind, that is ridiculous.
 

LincolnSpector

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There's certainly anti-Semitism in this country, and there's a whole lot more anti-black racism. Sometimes, they use anti-Israel and anti-Obama rhetoric as a cover. We have to separate legitimate political criticism from bigotry.
 

wil

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Jews are successful. It breeds contempt. Some folks think blacks are beneath them...and it pisses them off for folks to act otherwise.

Bigots and racists of all varieties feel threatened, they aren't comfortable in their own skin and the way to make themselves feel better about themselves is to demean others.

(seems the tag line to every post should be ... in my opinion)
 
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