Quirkybird
Granny to five
In the unlikely event it could be proved with absolute certainty that no deity or afterlife exists, and when you die you cease to be, what difference would it make to your life?
How would you react?
- Thread starter Quirkybird
- Start date
None, because I know otherwise. 
Quirkybird
Granny to five
You can't KNOW for a fact, however much you believe it to be true. I want to believe that this life is all there is and when I die I cease to be, never to live again, but I can't know that for certain.
NiceCupOfTea
Pathetic earthlings
- Messages
- 1,242
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
i'm not bothered either way
What I know and what you know are vastly different. It's not so much a question of believing what is true, but accepting what is true.
Quirkybird
Granny to five
What I know and what you know are vastly different. It's not so much a question of believing what is true, but accepting what is true.
But you have to believe it to be 'true' to accept it. I don't believe any of the less than credible stories in the Bible are anymore than figments of the authors' imaginations.
Gordian Knot
Being Deviant IS My Art.
NJ, your statement that you know otherwise is an invalid response. Why? Because faith is a belief. One cannot know for certain that a belief is true. You may choose to believe it is true. Nothing wrong with that. In the end though, it is still a personal choice to choose what you desire to believe is fact.
Just as Quirky admits she has her belief, but she cannot know for certain that her belief is accurate. So are you caught in the same web. No amount of belief in the universe can allow anyone to know for certain.
Quirky, to answer your original question, my response would be little different from how I act now. I acknowledge various possibilities for an afterlife are potential, but none of them can be known until we die. Since there is no way to know, I don't concern myself with it. I'll deal with it when I get there; if it turns out there is nothing after death, there won't be any 'me' to be concerned about it.
Just as Quirky admits she has her belief, but she cannot know for certain that her belief is accurate. So are you caught in the same web. No amount of belief in the universe can allow anyone to know for certain.
Quirky, to answer your original question, my response would be little different from how I act now. I acknowledge various possibilities for an afterlife are potential, but none of them can be known until we die. Since there is no way to know, I don't concern myself with it. I'll deal with it when I get there; if it turns out there is nothing after death, there won't be any 'me' to be concerned about it.
Most of my adult life I've had the contention that if there no 'thing' there after life that it wouldn't matter as I won't be here to care. Should that be a confirmed reality it wouldn't mean that I would abandon the Christian principles with which I was reared.
GK, with all do respect, neither you nor QB have had the same experiences that I have had. As such you are in no position to say my response is invalid.
You are both making an incorrect assumption that my statement is based strictly on faith.
Gordian Knot
Being Deviant IS My Art.
Well now that last statement is certainly intriguing!
Quirkybird
Granny to five
I have had many extremely weird experiences throughout my life, which would convince many people of the existence of the 'supernatural'. I still think there is a natural earthbound explanation for everything.
Ahanu
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,743
- Reaction score
- 335
- Points
- 83
I would give up the search for true beliefs in my life if it could be proved with absolute certainty God doesn't exist.
No God; no true beliefs.
Yes, you can KNOW it for certain.
Not by belief, which is a taught (taut?!) intellectual construct which may or may not turn out to have some basis in reality, but by intuitive inner knowing.
However you will never be able to convince anyone else who has not come to the same intuitive certainty of inner knowing. Each has to find their own way to that.
Quirkybird
Granny to five
But you won't know for certain if your intuition is right until you die, obviously if you are wrong you will cease to be and it won't matter.
There are levels of intuition: from the reasoned guess, to the vague hunch, to the crystalline insight.
At the level of the crystalline insight, I know for certain. Now.
I'm not at all certain if this life on earth is anything other than a matrix-like subjective existence, however, but that is another (related) question.
You might call it an unshakeable belief, but using the word belief already takes it far away from what it is. Any ordinary intelligent person can develop themselves to the point where this will become crystal clear to them, but no amount of argument from others will short-cut that process. Believe me (!) if I could gift it to you, I would. It would save me from endless numbers of frustrating conversations. I attend a discussion/dialogue group, and some of them are forever trying to get me to accept that this is just a belief, and it isn't. (except for one other member who is on the same page, who just smiles ruefully and shakes his head that I have allowed myself to argue the toss with them yet again)
Nicely put, Aerist...
Quirkybird
Granny to five
Ahanu
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,743
- Reaction score
- 335
- Points
- 83
I define supernatural as anything beyond your senses. A "natural earthbound explanation for everything" ties or chains every explanation down to your senses. Why confine your thinking in such a small box? I'm confident in my belief in the supernatural because much of the reality we experience and know is seemingly nonexistent in relation to the trees and other nonhuman life forms outside my apartment. Reality, though one, is relational in the sense it appears different ways to different beings. Supernatural realities exist when you use relational logic.
I would be severely depressed if this universe ended in a sham with no results after so much pain and suffering. It would be rendered meaningless--no matter how hard you wax eloquent about the advantages of ceasing to be. Instead, I prefer to think as follows: we will cease to be as we know it. There I go again with more relational logic.
Ahanu
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,743
- Reaction score
- 335
- Points
- 83
Your statement there is no way to know is a belief or a fact?
Precisely so.
To the best of my belief there IS a way to know. Many, who you do not believe, have followed a way and know.
Beliefs are just a way of limiting our experience, unless chosen wisely and by looking at the evidence c.w. what we would like to achieve. Obviously, if I want to continue to believe that this life is all there is, the way is clear (don't read around it or question, live selfishly and on no account start to pray or meditate). And if it becomes attractive to question these beliefs and perhaps totally change life and perspective, do the opposite.
Quirky bird says that "if it works for me, fine." The point is that even if it didn't work for me, it is how it is. This is not a choice for me. It's not a choice for you either, of course, but, you know, mayby later on or next time. There is plenty of time.