Quite Contentious

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by wil, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    While discussions have always been lively, and often turn into debates....

    And maybe I have rose colored glasses of days gone by....

    But information, providing viewpoints, opinions and understandings were the mainstay of discussion here.

    Not I am right and you are wrong. Oh yeah, I've gone a few rounds with many here...and I love and respect them all.

    But reading popular posts looks a lot like mudslinging....not a lot of listening, reading and contemplating others thoughts, viewpoints and opinions.

    Not a lot of supporting data and back up either...just shouting matches.

    Am I wrong? This is an Interfaith site.... not a fundie site, or Islamic site, or Catholic site, or Atheist site.....but a place to discuss theology, belief, gain an understanding of others beliefs....

    one of the seven habits for highly effective people in Covey's book of the same name... Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

    I find often if I seek first to understand.....I lose the need to be understood.

    Namaste my brothers and sisters
     
  2. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    Well said, well said indeed!

    Somewhere along the line civility has gone out the window on this forum. Sadly, I'm just as guilty as anyone for being less than civil at times to my fellow members.

    I joined this forum because it didn't have what I describe as a, 'My God can beat up your God' mentality. Of recent weeks however, I fear this is changing and it is quickly becoming like all the rest. I pray this will turn around soon.

    Thanks Wil, I think we all needed that reality check.
     
  3. voiceofwood

    voiceofwood Interfaith Forums

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    When we were young, we were admonished that sticks and stones may break our bones but that names could never hurt us. By the same token the greatest good manners is not to never give offence but never to take it. It seems that a cultural shift has occurred with all too ready to forget the words of James, ",,,be slow to anger"
     
  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Be slow to anger....

    Does that mean hold your temper?

    Or don't do things just to incite others?
     
  5. voiceofwood

    voiceofwood Interfaith Forums

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    I take it to mean something that is more akin to the former.

    The latter is back to the idea that good manners is to never offend anyone rather than the what I am suggesting, which is that the greatest good manners are to never take offence
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Hi Wil —
    Yes. Rose coloured, certainly ... but yes. Now it's mostly opinion.

    Well pardon me, but I do listen, read and contemplate what is said, but I reserve the right to defend myself when the mud's being slung, and challenge hypocrisy when I see it. Jesus did it all the time. And made no bones about it. It must be one of the fundamental tents everyone must agree on, if they've ever read the Bible. I take my lead from Him.

    Again, if you'll pardon me, I provide a lot of supporting data and back up ... but it is obvious that many think they're opinion over-rides all that.

    But you have yourself referred to me as 'programmed' and, indeed, a 'programmer'. Pots and kettles, old thing.

    What does he advise when the other party refuses to even try to understand? Indeed, even to listen, but simply ridicules?

    You mean it doesn't matter to you whether you're understood or not?

    Then what's the point of this post? :eek:
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    As a post-script.

    I am always interested in what others believe. I like to discuss. To understand. That way I grow as a person. Even if I do not agree with the other's belief, I enjoy 'comparing notes', and have found my most fruitful and rewarding discussions along those lines. I think I can say that. I am a constant champion of the Philosophia Perennis here. Of the wisdom of the world.

    But I always fall back on the reasoned, the rational, the logical. As I have said often, I don't discuss my personal theological opinions here, rather I defend the reasoning, the rationale and the logic of my own beliefs and the beliefs of others, even when they don't coincide with my own.

    More and more however, the rational is told to acknowledge the irrational as an equal. That reason and logic must count the absence of reason and logic as equal to itself.

    Sorry. But if we applied that rule in discourse, then really there is no point in opening one's mouth, other than to seek the acclaim of others.

    The dialogue becomes a Tower of Babel.
     
  8. DavidMcCann

    DavidMcCann Hellenist

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    Actually, this forum is very civilised — although I could name a couple of members I could live without reading again …

    Here, my reputation button says I'm on a distinguished road. In another place, I got so much hostility that it ended up reading "David is infamous around here"! A case of "Infamy,infamy! They've all got it in for me!"
     
  9. voiceofwood

    voiceofwood Interfaith Forums

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    Thank you Kenneth
     
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Another comedy geek! Ah ... Kenneth Williams (It was him, wasn't it?) ... the Carry On films ...
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    D'you know, I actually read your post and thought, "Who's Kenneth? His name's David?" And then posted ... and then read you again ...

    ...

    :eek:

    ...

    ("Thinks," (in a Bluebottle sotto voce mode) "must pay more attention ...)
     
  12. voiceofwood

    voiceofwood Interfaith Forums

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    That's ok, it never crossed my mind that you plagiarised
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Point of the post?

    Awareness....

    Other sites more antagonistic? yup... I ain't a member or participant there...

    Thomas, at times once I understand another's viewpoint, once I and they thru discussion correct my misunderstanding of their viewpoint, my need for expressing mine may diminish or be eliminated.

    If we come here for interfaith discussion, of learning others faiths and beliefs....pontificating our own does not do that....the ole two ears, two eyes, one mouth concept.

    awareness...

    rule #2 don't take anything personally....when I say there isn't a lot of supporting documentation or backup...how could you ever think I meant you??
     
  14. Marcialou

    Marcialou We are stardust

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    Wil, Thanks for bringing up this problem. We can all use a refresher on civil communication from time to time.
     
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    "Ooh, you are cheeky, but I like you!" :D (Spot the comedy reference anyone ... anyone?)

    Frankly, I think the phrase 'physician, heal thyself' springs to mind. :cool:

    But seriously, take those rose-tinted specs off for a minute. (And c',mon Wil ... how many times have you done for my argument with a straw man / ad hominem?)

    As for learning others' faiths and beliefs ...

    Why is it, I ask myself, that there is a marked absence of 'orthodox' among the posters? When was the last time we had an Orthodox posting? Greek, or Russian, or Coptic, or American?

    There's no Muslim (although Muslimwoman popped in recently). I think Jayhawker Soule represents Judaism (or at least does so with some awareness of the orthodox and the traditional), There is no representation of Hindu or Buddhist. We have one constant Baha'i, God bless her ...

    Negative opinions about what others believe ... dear God, we have no end of that!

    Food for thought.

    It is my experience now that when someone wants to ask me a question about Catholicism, they do so offline. Why? Because they don't want to do in online. Why?

    I leave that up to you.
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I guess Thomas because the fundies and the orthodox simply can't keep up.

    Interfaith is beyond their ken, it is my way or the highway, my G!d is better than your G!d and when that is objected to, when that is pointed out as not being accepting, not being interfaith they move on.

    Interfaith is evidently the bastion of the liberal theologian, the progressive Christian, the Sufi, the JewBu.

    You can't be all "you are going to hell for that belief which is not in line with mine and be accepting of various beliefs it appears??
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Yes, you and I have made our rounds, and I respect your intelligence, wisdom and beliefs more than ever. I honor your traditions, your need for garb, decoration, and ritual...

    I had contemplated that I the dogmatic liberal nontheistic panentheist follower of Christ that adores aspects of Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sufism, and more was the issue...

    But as I return I see knew blood and old blood going at it tooth and nail on posts...and come to appreciate my rose colored spectacles.
     
  18. voiceofwood

    voiceofwood Interfaith Forums

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    Thank you Dick
     
  19. LincolnSpector

    LincolnSpector Member

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    You're right. I'll try to do better.
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear ... here we go again ...

    The standard negative stereotype ...

    Not all 'traditional' or 'orthodox' are fundies by a long stretch ... but you prove my point, just hint at the orthodox or the traditional, and you are immediately treated to these such judgements.

    There's nothing 'liberal' or 'progressive' about your comments, Wil.

    You see, I say 'orthodox' and 'traditional', and you read 'extreme fundamentalist' ... Now, I wonder, can you see the prejudice I'm referring to?
     

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