Is a belief in God necessary for morality - A new study

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Gordian Knot, Jul 29, 2014.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    immoral laws...
     
  2. Gordian Knot

    Gordian Knot Being Deviant IS My Art.

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    Still think you are missing the point, Wil. The results of the study show in which countries people believe a belief in God is required for good morals versus which countries people believe a belief in God is not required for good morals.

    Then comparing the ones believing the former and the ones believing the latter to see if there are common characteristics of both groups.

    The result showed that people in wealthier nations tended to all believe that no God is required for good morals. People in poorer nations tended to believe that a belief in God is required for good morals.

    It's not a matter of whether a majority of people believed one way or the other. Rather that the social conditions of a nation seems to have a strong effect on how those people are going to answer the question.
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I'm referring to the titles and the discussion....

    but yeah, the graphs don't include Qatar, Oman, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Macau, for some reason they skip the rich Muslim countries...

    Causation, correlation, coincidence...

    if there are outliars...why are there outliars?
     
  4. Gordian Knot

    Gordian Knot Being Deviant IS My Art.

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    In 22 of the 40 countries surveyed, the majority says it is necessary to believe in God in order to be a moral person. “This position] is highly prevalent, if not universal, in Africa and the Middle East,” says the report.

    They didn't skip the Muslim countries. The belief is so universal in those areas that there was no need to break them out individually.

    No conspiracy to skew results.
     
  5. Shibolet

    Shibolet Member

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    Hasn't it ever occurred to you that, probably the reason is because America likes to punish their criminals with gusto?
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    third strike rules....mandatory minimum sentencing....jailing nonviolent drug offenders....and 25% of them are marijuana offenses...

    The only thing holding back presidents from changing the marijuana laws is the feared increase in unemployment rate when they have to let all these folks out... and the cost of reintegrating them in society.
     
  7. Shibolet

    Shibolet Member

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    Well, I guess you know more about them than I do.
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    But if they had broke them out individually we'd see those points on the graph that contradict their statement...and the line of the average would move.

    With 200 countries it just seems strange.
     
  9. progettoecumene

    progettoecumene New Member

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    Personally, I think there's a logical reason which anyway wouldn't exclude atheists, yet it's much easier to happen with a believer. The Bible says: Abraham believed and for that he was considered righteous. If we want to be able to love people, the first thing we have to do is delivering ourselves from fears. That happens when we understand that time does not exist and when we say to God: Thy will be done. When we accept God's will, whatever He wants for us, we cannot fear anything. For an atheist obviously this thing works in a different way, but, if a non-theist delivers himself or herself from any fear he loves as a believer does. So, I think that the belief in God is a great help, yet it's not required.
    At least, that's my opinion.
     
  10. just me

    just me New Member

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    Written laws are ease to break.
    When the law is written in our hearts there is no temptation to break them.
     
  11. Aerist

    Aerist Member

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    I so wish that were true.
     
  12. just me

    just me New Member

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    It is true.
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    tis the difference between knowing and Knowing.

    if you know you should do something or not do something, but consider doing it or do it anyway then you only know it. But if you know and don't even consider an option...then you Know it.
     
  14. HCSpiritual

    HCSpiritual New Member

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    Actually a well-chosen sample of 1000 is a sufficiently representative sample for a poll with a normal margin of error. See www-pollingreport-com/ncpp.htm (I can't yet post links so you will need to cut and paste, and replace - with .).

    That's not to say that it couldn't have been wrong for other reasons, but a sample size of 1000 is not one of them
     
  15. just me

    just me New Member

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    No, one does not have to believe in God for morality.
    Either one has to be a decent human being moral as a gift from God.and remain a doubting Thomas.
    WHats a Father to do with a rebelious child,, only G od knows.
     
  16. Shibolet

    Shibolet Member

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    I do agree with you. Since the belief in God does not affect any thing in God but in ourselves, it is indeed of a great help to us as inquisitiveness is concerned but not a requirement.
     
  17. Shibolet

    Shibolet Member

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    No one on earth is free of temptations to break the Law whether the Law is written in two tablets of stone or within our hearts. There has never been a man upon earth who has done only good and has never sinned. (Eccles. 7:20) And, mind you, that includes Jesus who was a man upon earth.
     
  18. Shibolet

    Shibolet Member

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    The only relationship between God and Morality is through the Law. Hence Prophet Isaiah stated that if we want to set things right with God so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must return to the obedience of the Law. (Isa. 1:18,19)
     
  19. DeiGratia

    DeiGratia New Member

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    In response to the opening post;

    >> A study by the Pew Research Center has discovered that by a big margin, the more poorly a nation has developed, the more its people believed a belief in God was required for a person to have good morals. The more highly developed the country, the fewer believed that belief in a God was a requirement.

    I don't presume to know what all other religions teach, so I'll stick to what I know. The belief of "a belief in God is necessary for having good morals" is not compatible with what the scriptures say. If one actually studies Christianity, he will find that the scriptures state both believers and unbelievers can have moral knowledge regardless. Paul says in Romans 2 that Gentiles too know God's law (morals), because it's written on their hearts, and in 1 Corinthians 5, he chastises a Christian for an immoral act that even pagans do not tolerate, which indicates a Christian in this case is being less moral than pagans.

    >> With one glaring exception. The United States of America is about the only highly developed country in the world where a majority (slightly over half) of people believed a belief in God was a requirement for good morality.

    In proportion to the number of believers, you can expect the number of under-educated believers increases. Doesn't the US have the highest number of believers among the developed countries? That means it has the highest number of the under-educated also. I don't mean to use the term under-educated as to insult them, I freely admit I'm far from well-educated in the scriptures either, but I think the majority of Christians are not so serious about studying the scriptures; many of them have become too complacent. Many may not be aware of those sayings of Paul, or that authentic Christian leaders or theologians would never claim such that unbelievers can't have morals.

    Also, another thing we might consider ... what one perceives as "good morality" can be highly subjective. Deeply religious people may deem anyone who condones premarital sex or abortion to be not having good morality; as their thinking may go, if you don't believe in God, you tend to think those things are permissible, therefore unbelievers lack in good morality. The idea of "what a moral person is" could largely differ between the religious and secular. I'd assume most secular people would say, if you don't harm others (kill, steal, deceive, etc), you're a moral person. But religious people may add more conditions on top of that to deem a person moral. A better question to ask is, "Can a person be an ethical, law-abiding member of the society without a belief in God?", then I'd think most people would answer yes.


    >>While atheists make upward of 15 percent of the U.S. population, they only make up 0.2 percent of the prison population.

    How one identifies his affiliation with a religion can be dubious. Note that, when someone checks the box "Jewish", it doesn't always mean that they're believers for there are many secular Jewish. His claim can be of an ethnicity and not of a belief. In a somewhat similar way, many people say that they're Christians, simply because they were born into a Christian home or because they were baptized once in their lives (often as a child). In my personal opinion, one shouldn't call himself a Christian unless he intends to practice the teachings of Christ.

    And yet another thing worth pointing out here is, are these data collected at the time of crimes being committed? The inmates may have taken up a religion after they were incarcerated. I wouldn't be surprised if conversion rate was high due to people facing a predicament.

    At the end of the day, it's hard to draw a meaningful conclusion without covering all the details.
     
  20. Gordian Knot

    Gordian Knot Being Deviant IS My Art.

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    In proportion to the number of believers, you can expect the number of under-educated believers increases. Doesn't the US have the highest number of believers among the developed countries? That means it has the highest number of the under-educated also. I don't mean to use the term under-educated as to insult them, I freely admit I'm far from well-educated in the scriptures either, but I think the majority of Christians are not so serious about studying the scriptures; many of them have become too complacent. Many may not be aware of those sayings of Paul, or that authentic Christian leaders or theologians would never claim such that unbelievers can't have morals.

    Facts may be insulting, DeiG. It doesn't change the truth of those facts. Americans are by far one of the most undereducated societies amongst the industrialized nations. And not uneducated about their own religion. Uneducated about most everything else as well. The level of ignorance amongst the population, especially in the middle class is appalling.

    There is little to no individual study into the tenants of Christianity. People are content to be told what the religion stands for and believe accordingly. Most of the ones doing the telling have agendas far beyond the religious. So called moral agendas. Political agendas. Personal agendas.

    This doesn't come as any surprise though as most people are just as ignorant about current (and past) history about our country and about the world. In one infamous study a majority of people asked to find the United States on a world map were unable to get it right!!!!!

    Another brilliant concept thought up by a reporter was to ask the person-on-the-street whether they thought ObamaCare or the Affordable Care Act was the better program. Not only did people choose one or the other, they even gave their reasons why they believed one was better than the other.

    ObamaCare and the Affordable Care Act are the same frackin' program! The first is the popular name for the program, the latter the official name for the program. To watch and listen to these people so seriously expound on why one was better than the other made me sick to my stomach.

    How very far the mighty have fallen.
     

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