Jesus Sutra's - Karma


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Essex, UK
I mentioned the Jesus Sutra's (by Author, Martin Palmer) on another thread. For those that do not know about this book here is a sample.

The core notion of ending Karma is introduced in 'The Third Liturgical Sutra: The Sutra of 'Returning to your Orignal Nature'.

The Messiah says all must "clear their minds, and set aside all wanting and doing."

(e.g. become a human BEING)

Desire and action generates Karma, its causes and effects. For you pay and reap the rewards later. By practicing wu wei, the Taoist term meaning actionless action, you do not create bad Karma.

and the Messiah says "it is this which will enable you to transcend rebirth'.

He goes on to say to the disciple Simon "From goodness in past lives, people come to this religion and through faith they find Happiness.....Simon, know this: You ask me about the Triumphant Law. What your ancestors have done bears fruit in you, their Karma finds its outcome in you". (3:18, 20-21).

The Messiah talks more to Simon and the other disciples

"The truth is like looking at the white of the moon in water.
If the water is cloudy, you can't see it clearly.
Its burning straw in a fire -
If the straw is wet, the fire can't burn brightly.
Spiritual life can be hidden and dampened like this.
So Simon, if anyone wants to follow the Way of Triumph
They must clear their minds, and set aside all wanting and doing.
To be pure and still means to be open to purity and stillness-
as a result you can intuit the truth.

People struggle to figure it all out.
This struggle creates the desire to do something.
Doing creates movement which results in anxiety;
Then it is impossible to find Rest and Contentment.
This is why I teach no wanting and doing without doing
It stops thinking about things that disturb you
Then you can enter into the source of pure empty being.

Detach yourself from what disturbs and distracts you
And be as pure as one who breathes in purity and emptiness
This state is the gateway to enlightenment
It is the Way to Peace and Happiness."

I study this myself - and yet there's no way to prove it.
Why is it like this? Because it cannot be proved
How can you define what is beyond definition?
This is why I say: no wanting, no doing, no piousness, no truth.
These are the four essential laws.
They cannot teach you in themselves
But follow them and you will be free.

The above quotes are from
'The Third Liturgical Sutra: The Sutra of returning to your orignal nature'. (Jesus Sutra's by Martin Palmer)

"Animals practice true faith and live by these laws
So they are already there, in that realm,
and so you will come to be in a place
Where nothing else exists or is needed."

And everyone said YES to this, Amen.

Then he spoke to the assembled crowd and said:

This Sutra is profound and unimaginable.
All the GODs and gurus agree on this, and acknowledge
This Way that is the essence of connection and return
To move you need light to see by - this teaching provides it
Just as the sun slants out, so you can see what is in front of you.
This sutra offers understanding, and by its light
You can know the way to the peace and happiness in your heart.
All the holy ones know that this teaching
Is at the root of all that is true.


Love beyond measure

I am amazed to find the words "Jesus" "Karma" "Sutra" in the same thread title. Something to warm the cockles on a cold December evening. :)
Dear Brian

It is a wonderful book and one you wish to keep close to one's heart.

In the sutra's they refer to Jesus as the great honoured and enlightened one!

It makes one wonder which disciple/apostle went to China?

Anyone prepared to speculate?

We know that Thomas went to India but I was under the impression all the others went West?

Sacredstar to rack my brains here - wasn't it the Nestorians who went east towards China, along the silk road? Bunch of "heretics" by mainstream standards.
big smiles well it seems the heretics outnumbered everyone else in the beginning.....does make one wonder why!

One cannot shift the box before it is ready to be shifted!

Perhaps it would be alittle instructive to review the theme in a broader context: chronologically

"When righteousness is weak and faints, and unrighteousness exalts in pride, then my Spirit arises on earth. For the salvation of those who are good, for the destruction of evil in men, for the fulfilment of the kingdom of righteousness, I come to this world, from age to age.”

“And the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end. To order it and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth, even for ever.”

“When a thousand two hundred and some years have passed from the inception of the religion of the Arabian, and the overthrow of the kingdom of Iran, and the degradation of the followers of My religion, a descendant of the Iranian kings will be raised up as a Prophet.”

“ I am not the first Buddha who came upon earth, nor shall I be the last. In due time another Buddha will arise in the world, a Holy One, a supremely Enlightened One, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious, knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a master of angels and mortals. He will reveal to you the same eternal truths which I have taught you. He will preach His religion-glorious at the goal, in the spirit and in the letter. He will proclaim a religious life wholly perfect and pure, such as I now proclaim.”

“ And I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth, for the first Heaven and the first Earth were passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, John, saw the Holy City, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, and I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying....”

“And in the Holy Qur’an, God says: God is the light of the Heavens and the Earth. His light is like a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp encased in glass, the glass as it were a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive of neither the east nor the west, whose oil is beginning to burst into light, though no fire has touched it. Light upon light. God guideth whomsoever He willeth to His light, and of all things, God is knowing.”
Dear smkolins

smkolins said:
Perhaps it would be a little instructive to review the theme in a broader context: chronologically

wonderful passages; but would you like to explain what their connection is with the Jesus Sutra's and Karma?

being love