Paul the 13th? - I Cor. 1:1

Shibolet

Well-Known Member
Messages
691
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Paul the 13th? - I Cor. 1:1

"Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God."

Probably, it was the style of the time in the First Century among some of the learnt Jews to gather around them groups of 12 as an analogy to the 12 Tribes of Israel to teach them Torah. It seems that they could not be 11 neither more than 12. In the case of Jesus, one of the apostles, Judas, had gone lost by death and, soon after Jesus' demise, the Apostles found necessary to choose between two dedicated disciples, Barsabas and Mathias, one to fill up the spot. Lots were cast and Mathias was appointed to be the one to fill up the spot vacated by Judas. (Acts 1:26)

About 15 years later, Paul showed up in Jerusalem claiming to have been made an apostles by Jesus himself. He applied for membership into the Sect of the Nazarenes and was refused on the basis of his persecutions of the Nazarenes in Jerusalem and Damascus. (Acts 9:26) The man could not be even a disciple, concluded the Apostles, let alone an apostle as he demanded.

If Jesus had indeed made of Paul an apostle, why wouldn't have he informed the other apostles to elect Paul instead of Mathias or leave the spot unfilled until Paul showed up? The truth is that Paul was a self-called apostle and never could prove his claim. Even as a special apostle, to the Gentiles that is, he could not be for two reasons: Peter had been the one assigned to that position since the beginning according to Acts 15:7 and second, because in truth, Paul never went to the Gentiles. He did emulate a decision to do so as we have in Acts 13:46 but instead, he immediately returned to the Jews. (Acts 14:1) He did not have what it took Peter to raise a church of Gentiles from scratch. All his life, since his first station in Damascus and until his last in Rome, he never left the Jews in peace. (Acts 9:1,2 and 28:17)

So, was Paul the 13th or just claimed to be?
 

nothead

nothead
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Texas
Paul the 13th? - I Cor. 1:1

"Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God."

Probably, it was the style of the time in the First Century among some of the learnt Jews to gather around them groups of 12 as an analogy to the 12 Tribes of Israel to teach them Torah. It seems that they could not be 11 neither more than 12. In the case of Jesus, one of the apostles, Judas, had gone lost by death and, soon after Jesus' demise, the Apostles found necessary to choose between two dedicated disciples, Barsabas and Mathias, one to fill up the spot. Lots were cast and Mathias was appointed to be the one to fill up the spot vacated by Judas. (Acts 1:26)

About 15 years later, Paul showed up in Jerusalem claiming to have been made an apostles by Jesus himself. He applied for membership into the Sect of the Nazarenes and was refused on the basis of his persecutions of the Nazarenes in Jerusalem and Damascus. (Acts 9:26) The man could not be even a disciple, concluded the Apostles, let alone an apostle as he demanded.

If Jesus had indeed made of Paul an apostle, why wouldn't have he informed the other apostles to elect Paul instead of Mathias or leave the spot unfilled until Paul showed up? The truth is that Paul was a self-called apostle and never could prove his claim. Even as a special apostle, to the Gentiles that is, he could not be for two reasons: Peter had been the one assigned to that position since the beginning according to Acts 15:7 and second, because in truth, Paul never went to the Gentiles. He did emulate a decision to do so as we have in Acts 13:46 but instead, he immediately returned to the Jews. (Acts 14:1) He did not have what it took Peter to raise a church of Gentiles from scratch. All his life, since his first station in Damascus and until his last in Rome, he never left the Jews in peace. (Acts 9:1,2 and 28:17)

So, was Paul the 13th or just claimed to be?

Paul was the real deal. Proof: never condemned by the PILLARS rather upheld and affirmed. Council of Jerusalem, his own testimony and others included.
 

Shibolet

Well-Known Member
Messages
691
Reaction score
0
Points
16
13th of how many since?

I don't think you read the thread. There was never a 13th apostle. The custom was of 12 after the ancient 12 Tribes of Israel. Judas got lost by death and Mathias had to be elected to fill up the vacant spot as if they could not do with 11 but not more than 12. As Paul was rejected when he applied to join the Sect, he decided to make of himself an apostle under the pretext that Jesus had done the assignment. But the Apostles didn't fall for his disguise as they refused to believe that he could be even a disciple.(Acts 9:26)
 

Shibolet

Well-Known Member
Messages
691
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Paul was the real deal. Proof: never condemned by the PILLARS rather upheld and affirmed. Council of Jerusalem, his own testimony and others included.

That was after 14 years working in Asia Minor with Barnabas and making a name for himself. The Apostles had to uphold Paul's claims because they were headquartered in Jerusalem and allowed to preach their gospel without being bothered by the local Jews.

Since 14 years ago Paul had caused a havoc in Jerusalem, preaching the idolatry that Jesus had been the son of God and had resurrected. (Acts 9:20)

The Jewish authorities tried to arrest him to bring to Court and the Apostles afraid that Paul could compromise them took him down to Caesarea and from there back to Tarsus where he belonged. But by doing so they had obstructed justice.

When Paul returned to Jerusalem after 14 years, they had to condone him to prevent another havoc. But all they wanted was to get rid of him as fast as possible. It didn't help though. Paul was arrested in the Temple, taken to Court and the Attorney Tertullus accused him as a ringleader of the Sect of the Nazarenes. (Acts 24:1-5) Lucky that the apostles must have gotten only a warning. (Acts 21:28)
 

Shibolet

Well-Known Member
Messages
691
Reaction score
0
Points
16
And how about the 14th and the 15th? One of them is even a woman - Romans 16,7

There is nothing in Romans 16:7 about a female apostle. Perhaps you have written a new version of the NT. As Paul was concerned, a woman could not even speak in the church, let alone be an apostle. (I Tim. 2:11-15)
 
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Points
0
There is nothing in Romans 16:7 about a female apostle. Perhaps you have written a new version of the NT. As Paul was concerned, a woman could not even speak in the church, let alone be an apostle. (I Tim. 2:11-15)

Rm 16,7
Greet also Andronikos and Iounia (...) who are good-known among the apostles. (Translated by me).
 

Aerist

Well-Known Member
Messages
53
Reaction score
1
Points
6
Location
UK
Probably, it was the style of the time in the First Century among some of the learnt Jews to gather around them groups of 12 as an analogy to the 12 Tribes of Israel to teach them Torah. It seems that they could not be 11 neither more than 12.

Think Astrology. I think it is more or less doctrine that the 12 tribes were astrological houses, in the Kabbalah.
 

Shibolet

Well-Known Member
Messages
691
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Think Astrology. I think it is more or less doctrine that the 12 tribes were astrological houses, in the Kabbalah.

We are talking about the apostolic organization among some learnt Jews in the First Century. I don't find any thing related to Astrology.
 

Thomas

Administrator
Admin
Messages
12,586
Reaction score
2,749
Points
108
The vocation of every Christian is to be an apostle. 'The apostles' is the collective noun by which the first group was known, and in whom was entrusted the transmission of the Message and the Way.
 

Shibolet

Well-Known Member
Messages
691
Reaction score
0
Points
16
The vocation of every Christian is to be an apostle. 'The apostles' is the collective noun by which the first group was known, and in whom was entrusted the transmission of the Message and the Way.

Yea, but Paul showed up in Jerusalem saying that he had been anointed by Jesus as a apostle and, it seems that Jesus had forgotten to report to the Apostles who rejected Paul's application on the basis of his persecutions of the Nazarenes and the fact that they could not believe that he could be even a disciple, let alone an apostle. (Acts 9:26)
 

Shibolet

Well-Known Member
Messages
691
Reaction score
0
Points
16

Or this: "God is not to mock." It is about Paul's attempt to mock God by going to the Temple under the disguise of a vow being fulfilled by a Jew. (Acts 21:21-24)

GOD IS NOT TO MOCK.

"Make no mistake about this," said Paul, "No one makes a fool of God. A man will reap only what he saws." (Gal. 6:7)

Ahab, king of Israel the Ten Tribes was at war with Syria and he needed some help which he asked of Jehoshaphat, king of Judah. Somehow, Ahab was aware that the Syrian king had ordered the captains of their Armies to kill only king Ahab and the war would be over. (2 Chron. 18:30) So, Ahab, without any explanation why, asked the king of Judah to keep his royal robes while he, Ahab, would disguise himself as a common soldier.(2 Chron. 18:29) The siege was closing on Jehoshaphat when an arrow went berserk from a certain Syrian soldier and hit Ahab on the chest which was enough to kill him. (2 Chron. 18:33)

Now, if you turn to Acts 21, when Paul visited Jerusalem for the last time, he meant to get into the Temple but was afraid because of the news that he was preaching to the Jews throughout the Diaspora against Moses, the Jewish customs and circumcision. (Acts 21:21) In order to save him from being arrested, James, the head of the Nazarenes in Jerusalem had suggested that Paul joined four other Jews who had a vow and disguise himself in the Temple to make believe he was also an observant Jew. (Acts 21:23,24) When the seven days of the celebration were about over, some Jews from Asia recognized Paul and arrested him. (Acts 21:27) He was taken to trial, appealed to Caesar and left for Rome. And it was the last the Jews of Jerusalem ever saw of him.

The bottom line is that king Ahab disguised himself as a common soldier and was found by a fatal arrow from another common but Syrian soldier. Paul disguised himself as an observant Jew, was acknowledge by a Diaspora observant Jew visiting Jerusalem at the same time, was arrested and banished forever from the Land of Israel.

Indeed, God is not to mock. What one sows, that's exactly what he will reap.
 
Top