Charlie Hebdo

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Thomas, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. DavidMcCann

    DavidMcCann Hellenist

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    So, an estimated 195 million Muslims support terrorism. And, before people quibble over the figures, it would be a menace if 195 thousand did.

    Yes, the war in Iraq was wrong — Bush and Blair were war criminals. But the big differences are (1) the terrorists attack because they think it is their duty as Muslims, but the West did not attack Iraq because they thought it was their duty as Christians and (2) "collateral damage", however abhorrent, is not terrorism. Dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was terrorism, but killing civilians accidentally isn't (think US police forces…)
     
  2. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    That sums it up well enough for me.

    Take a look at all the terrorists in Christian history and look at what's going on now: the covenant ideology of Christian European settlers rivals that of the Islamic State and their ideology in its brutality, because many of them wanted to purge the land of so-called evil forces (Native Americans). From the Native American's perspective, it's clear some of the most dangerous terrorists in history weren't holding Korans; they were holding Bibles! Any excellent thing, such as the Prophet's message, can be diverted to the wrong ends.
     
  3. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    A lot. It's just the wrong time period.
     
  4. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    (1) you perceive unity where I see none, the reasons my be numerous (2) does it make a difference if it's terrorism or collateral? Willingly sacrificing civilians for their own purposes.
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Well we know the lies that we were told as reasons to kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians on accident...

    What was the real reason? And lying to a nation to create the fear to cause us to spend trillions and send our boys off to death or dismemberment, that wasn't terrorism?
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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  7. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Any faith spread by the sword would be very weak, and it would only be a matter of time before those believers switch back to unbelief. Those people would be terrified, not inspired to have faith. It must have been spread by another means.
     
  8. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    David, Seems to me that 100,000 civilians dead just because they were in the way of war targets would call that terrorism. I could see the reaction now if one block of American real estate was destroyed to get at one terrorist. The hue and cry would be deafening.

    Wil, we have to be careful not to broaden terms too much. Which we as a society just love doing these days. The thousands of our children dead, and tens of thousands of our children maimed isn't terrorism.

    That they died for a lie by a President and Vice President whose sole purpose was political in motivation. Someone already said they are war criminals. They most certainly are. They also betrayed their oaths of office and should have been tried for high treason. Isn't that more than enough?

    The shame, SHAME of this country is that they and their minions never even had their wrist slapped. Every time I see W puttering around with paint and showing off his 'art' I want to puke.
     
  9. DavidMcCann

    DavidMcCann Hellenist

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    Well, they could call it brutality or military incompetence, but they couldn't call it terrorism. Terrorism means the deliberate use of violence against non-combatants in order to intimidate. Do you not have a dictionary, or do you belong to the Humpty Dumpty school of semantics: " when I use a word, it means what I want it to"?

    Do you not know where London is?

    "Must have been"?! So if when Muhammad arrived with his army at Mecca and demanded that they convert, he was prepared to take his army home if the Meccans said no? And the people conquered by Muslims who converted never did so because of lack of civil rights, taxation, or persecution?

    I'm not really sure any more what the argument is here. Why are non-Muslims so keen to claim how peaceful Islam is in spite of 1300 years of evidence to the contrary? A triumph of hope over experience?
     
  10. farhan

    farhan Active Member

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    Well how about killing innocent people, regardless of the means used. It should include economic sanctions, forced regime changes, sponsoring thug regimes, creating ethnic/sectarian fault lines to divide and rule, training militants, bombing DU shells etc

    I can go on and on with this but its no use. The political entities of Thailand and Philippines were made by whom? were the natives asked if they want to be a part of these political entities? Were they given any right of freedom like Scots recently? The rest (Dont know about Boko Haram) are either direct or indirect creation of the west, not of Islam. Where was Al Qaeda or Taliban in Afghanistan before Americans started their war against Ruskie Infidels? Where was Daish before US/NATO/Regional powers intervened in Syria?

    Prove that.
    Well David, how much of Quran have you read? By reading I mean reading, with context and oral tradition, not half a verse here and half a verse there.
     
  11. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    Of all the things to comment on, I've had numerous answers to you which I think have been infinity more relevant then to the subject then your location.

    But fine, I believe you missed the subtle distinctions I made, I know where they SAY they are from as I know where you SAY you are from, but I don't KNOW either your or their location. The whole point was to question the relevance of stating your location and how it would connect to honesty.

    Is this really what you want to discuss?
     
  12. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Oh, good God ...

    So the subtext is:
    We have to have laws to allow freedom of speech, because if we didn't, the Jews, the Christians and the Moslems – a 'significant portion' of them – will kill us all!

    Your friend thinks that "Charlie Hebdo" has been murdered?

    Does your friend even know that CH is a satirical magazine?

    Is your friend actually aware of what happened in Paris?

    This reads like knee-jerk secular sectarianism to me.
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Meanwhile ...

    "The Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT) is a non-profit research group founded by Steven Emerson in 1995. It is recognized as the world's most comprehensive data center on radical Islamic terrorist groups. For more than a decade, the IPT has investigated the operations, funding, activities and front groups of Islamic terrorist and extremist groups in the United States and around the world. It has become a principal source of critical evidence to a wide variety of government offices and law enforcement agencies, as well as the U.S. Congress and numerous public policy forums. Research carried out by the IPT team has formed the basis for thousands of articles and television specials on the subject of radical Islamic involvement in terrorism, and has even led to successful government action against terrorists and financiers based in the United States." (from their website)

    On Fox News Steve Emerson said of the UK:
    "It's not just no-go zones - there are actual cities like Birmingham that are totally Muslim, where non-Muslims just simply don't go in."

    Mr Emerson added: "And in parts of London, there are actually Muslim religious police who beat and actually wound seriously anyone who doesn't dress according to Muslim religious attire."

    What frightens me is this guy is apparently regarded as an 'expert' by the US government?

    That there are people only too ready to lap this kind of shit up.
     
  14. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    Yeah I heard he advises the U.S. government, which is crazy !
     
  15. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Well, they could call it brutality or military incompetence, but they couldn't call it terrorism. Terrorism means the deliberate use of violence against non-combatants in order to intimidate. Do you not have a dictionary, or do you belong to the Humpty Dumpty school of semantics: " when I use a word, it means what I want it to"? David.

    So you are saying the deliberate choice to kill the enemy with no regard for innocent bystanders would not fall under the deliberate use of violence against non-combatants in order to intimidate? I expect they felt fairly intimidated. We're talking about 100,000 people. Military incompetence? Seriously? Sounds more like military intimidation.

    But then you apparently use the Daffy Duck school of semantics. I'll stick with Humpty.
     
  16. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    This thread is so incredibly depressing and it gets worse every day...
     
  17. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Thomas,
    Emerson is not regarded by the US government as anything. He is well regarded by the wing nut Republicans in Congress because it is what they want to hear.

    And he is well regarded on FOX because they know it is what their viewers want to hear.
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Thank God for that.
     
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Charlie Hebdo takes the high ground with its latest cover
     
  20. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    What? They are taking a tragedy and turning it into a mode for massive financial gain? That's unheard of... *sarcasm* I really don't know if this is an attempt at mocking Muslims or mending ties with the Muslims who are not a part of it. (I have to assume the 1st due to their past)

    The people who commit these acts don't think about what happens after, they never worry about how they are going to empower the wrongdoers. As I said before, the company (and artists/jouranalists) should be held accountable for their disrespect, however that does not give anyone the right to attack and kill. If these people had gone and demonstrated at the business, or reciprocated in some non-violent way, there would be no news of it, but with this action comes bad views. Now more people than ever will listen to the spouted off lies of the anti-Muslims, while the "good Christian Feller" who bombed the NAACP building gets by without any recognition. Thanks Jihadis for another black mark on Islam in the eye of the public. We now have to try to get out of a deeper hole. but now when they go on to further mock Muslims, as a show that they aren't scared (that big nuts syndrome) more weaker minded will try this again. for the same reason. Disrespect and opression.
     

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