Charlie Hebdo

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Thomas, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    And I'm not a Muslim, but it's just not something a support whoever it's against, I don't like the cruel mocking of celebrities at times, I no fan of that type of thing, I wouldn't support it. And certainly wouldn't fight for it. And if they introduced laws against such things, I'd think good why not, about time.
    Slander is unlawful. At least was. But being cruel and insulting isn't, although can be, verbal bullying, you can take lawful action against such.
    Do you think if these cartoons were posted in a school magazine, where Muslim children were a small minority , do you think it would be bullying and discriminating?
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Mad Magazine....the Onion....and National Lampoon are quite popular in middle and high schools....

    more mockery might be what we need.... we need to not be offended so easily.
     
  3. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    Yes, but it's not me who's offended by this, but I don't agree with such behavior, and like words and actions I regard as bullying.
    Ok it's not as bad as bullying personally, but is mocking mocking can be bullying and very hurtful. It's not like it's mocking a live person to their face, but may have the same intentions, and be the exact same reason why people do mock and ridicule someone to their face, which can be bullying.
     
  4. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    Do these high school magazines mock, a minority 's race, highly held sacred customs?
    I hear it said it's funny if you mock someone, take the piss, and they find it funny, if they find it offensive and you do it knowing so, then it's bullying
     
  5. DavidMcCann

    DavidMcCann Hellenist

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    There's an article in the Catholic Herald which states
    Well put, I think.
     
  6. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    I am for freedom if speach, and think it's right for people to be allowed to question and criticize, but I'm not a supporter on actions based on hatred, and just to insult and cause trouble. Paul.

    I understand where you are coming from. Here are some questions I would be interested in your answers to.

    Who gets to be final arbiter of where the line is drawn between what is considered mocking and what is considered hate?

    What happens when some people see it the former way, and some people see it the latter way? It's mockery to some, hateful to others. Who gets to decide which it is?

    How do you know Charlie Hebdo meant it to be insulting and to cause trouble? Is it possible they considered it mockery with no other intention? They are after all a satirical magazine, and they have skewered plenty of other sacred cows as well.

    Is it possible the people who are offended are putting an agenda on the magazine that was never there in the first place?
     
  7. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    We can freely make fun of Islam, it kind of admits it's unpleasant and rude and is now. To say we should when it admits it's unpleasant and rude, is actually quite unpleasant and rude, don't agree with that at all, ecspecially from Catholics. Not a very good religious example at all
     
  8. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    I think we know it is offensive to Islam, and I don't think most if any find it funny, I don't think it was meant as a nice bit of friendly homour with muslim
     
  9. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    Maybe it is blown out of proportion by the circumstances.
    I'm really not for this type of freedom of speach, but what it does encourage. I heard racist jokes all my life, by people who are not racist, if that makes sense But what i hear more today, is a strong dislike, towards muslims, and their races, like Pakistani and arabs, immigrants.
    I just think got to be very careful what is being encouraged today, as I do see a growing hatred, and i think this type of thing only encourage it
     
  10. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    You didn't answer the questions, Paul. No blame though. The thorny issue is to one person deciding something might be offensive, but his next door neighbor might think it not. It just is not as cut and dried as you would wish it to be. Heck I would wish it to be so easy myself! But wishing doesn't make it so.

    On your last comment. If printing an illustration encourages the hatred and violence, murdering five people for it encourages the hatred and violence by a thousand fold. One cannot pretend that printing a picture and murder are in any way comparable!
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I look at the pictures that the anti abortion crowd puts out....

    that offends me...

    looking at the pictures....like I've said before... I don't read french but looking at pictures they lambasted everyone.... but if what is widely represented is accurate...Muslims were over represtented...
     
  12. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    Deviladvocate I tried to answer.
    I think obviously this was out of islam that the prophet is from , to me i's obvious who was going to be offended, if it was some Poland's deeply held beliefs, as they can also be integrating into our society, if something was taken from theiir culture in the same way.
    Surely the one printing images of Mohammed knows it is forbid in islam so by doing so knows it will cause offense, Islam itself makes it offensive, but they did not create the offense , someone decided to take something which would cause offence, I don't believe they didnt know, come on, that's pretty damn obvious.
    As for the killings, that's just madness, If someone were to disrespect thoughs victims in a magazine, then it would obviously be offensive, even if some don't hold it offensive, it's just common sense.
     
  13. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    But abortion is an opinion, is not about your racial practices.
    We know what they are doing with abortion pictures.
    May not be plesent to look at, but are just facts.
    I think there is a big difference.
    I think this protesting outside clinics is wrong though, don't know if it still goes on.
    Can't say I totally agree with abortion, but don't think that should be allowed, must be very difficult for these women, thats something I consider disrespectful and uncompassionate.
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    so graphic over the top pictures are ok with you if it fits your paradigm....

    poifect...

    we are all on the same page...
     
  15. EdgyDolmen

    EdgyDolmen Active Member

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    On a personal level I find some satire very distasteful yet I see the point of satire as uncomplicated. If we sincerely believe in freedom of expression we must beyond any doubt defend satire without reservation --- not despite our possible distaste but because satire gives us reason to pause, question and think. Yep, I do like Voltaire :)
     
  16. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    Is it forbidden to make images of just Mohammed, or any of their prophets?
     
  17. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    It is okay to be offended by a picture. Insulted. Pissed. Outraged. It is NOT okay to murder somebody over it. Cause when we strip out all the hype and angst, that is what this was. Can't say it any plainer than that.
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Mohamed is the final prophet...

    Jesus is a Muslim prophet.

    In general the radicals have issues with all images of man, I believe they deem them as idols, (man is made in G!d's image) hence taliban destroying paintings, statues, any representation of the human image.
     
  19. paul

    paul recovering sinner

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    What is the orthodox view on images of Mohammed?
    Jesus?
    And man in general?
     
  20. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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