Another New Paradigm

EdgyDolmen

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No, quite right.

It is the extinction of all desire of becoming.

Sorry. Didn't mean to throw those Greek letters in.

Extinction as in extinguish. Since posting I have done some more reading and have found reference eg; extinguish flame...

I quoted the wrong post. Jeez. I think I need to stop for a while:)
 
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A Cup Of Tea

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That's in the nature of metaphysics. It's a very technical science! Try reading The Multiple States of Being by René Guénon :eek:

Can I offer two things to bear in mind:

One: The need to distinguish between the universal and the particular.
(The most common cause of error)

Two: The need to be mindful of simultaneity, not just sequence.
(Time belongs to the particular)
Is it a genuine recommendation or simply an example of an extreme?

I've read through your post but I'm where wil was the other day, trying to hold on to the wiggling thing. But I feel I'm sort of close so I will give it some time and a reread or two.

Tea, your understanding of 'soul' is quite similar to Buddhism!
It's how I have understood the understanding of others at least. You saying it's close is a good sign.
 

Thomas

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Is it a genuine recommendation or simply an example of an extreme?
Well it's rather extreme. The style of the foremost commentator on the Sophia Perennis either grabs you by the throat or leaves you flat. You can dip into it on Amazon ... After that, try Analogia Entis, the metaphysical treatise of Erich Przywara (1889-1972), one of the pre-eminent Catholic theologians of his day.

But be warned: That is extreme!
 

Devils' Advocate

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In this so called Reality. Well, most of the time.
If thought is energy within a structure of mind which is matter, it follows that when a person dies the matter (body) alters into other matter. And the energy of the mind, or persona, returns to pool of energy that is the universe.

Rebirth then becomes a re-use of the previous energy into consciousness as a new form. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; it can alter. Rebirth becomes an incorrect term as the previous persona does not return. The energy that returns in a material form is taken from the universe of energy. It is in essence, the rebirth of little pieces of a billion previous personas into an entirely new persona.

This makes sense to me, though it is far, far removed from traditional perceptions of what reincarnation is.
 

Nick the Pilot

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DA,

I would add that, as the 'mind' returns to the pool of energy that is the universe, the borders of the 'mind' remain intact.

Would you agree? Or do you see the 'little pieces' mixing with other pieces of the universe, creating a different 'individual' for the succeeding incarnation?
 

Thomas

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And the energy of the mind, or persona, returns to pool of energy that is the universe.
Is it possible I wonder, that the 'energies of mind' retain some of their 'form' for a given period of time after the death of the physical body?

Could not these 'forms' retain some attachment to place? I'm thinking of these 'forms' as 'psychic residue' spoken of by Guénon above. This could offer an explanations of apparitions, ghosts, etc? Feelings of a 'sense of place', and so on?

(I realise I'm probably wandering into the superstitious realms of 'bad science' here ... )

Rebirth then becomes a re-use of the previous energy into consciousness as a new form.
And, continuing my theme, this re-use would involve not simply energy, but rather energy still retaining some of its original form which can appear to the consciousness as 'memory' which, for various reasons, might attach itself (a kind of resonance) to the living being.

Rebirth becomes an incorrect term as the previous persona does not return.
This is proposition.

The energy that returns in a material form is taken from the universe of energy. It is in essence, the rebirth of little pieces of a billion previous personas into an entirely new persona.
Ditto.

This makes sense to me, though it is far, far removed from traditional perceptions of what reincarnation is.
Well I would argue 'popular' or 'contemporary' rather than 'traditional', but then that's me, a Traditionalist, being semantically over-protective. :D

A complete aside – I have heard people who have undergone transplants (notably the heart) insisting they've inherited some of the characteristics of the donor.

If we accept that the matter itself is energy, then might not an organ retain, in some way, the persona, an energy form or pattern, of the donor?

In the same way that an amputee might insist that they can still feel the physical presence of a lost limb ... I dunno ... just musing ...
 

EdgyDolmen

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I've become rather fascinated with this thread. Good stuff! I'm trying to decide just where these ideas originated. Okay. Step up. Who has been reading Helena Blavatsky? Better still - who hasn't read Blavatsky? ;)
 

Nick the Pilot

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Read Blavatsky? I wrote a study-guide for her book, The Secret Doctrine.

Edgy, are you familiar with the concept of group-soul?
 

Thomas

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Hi ED –

I read The Secret Doctrine many moons ago, but I'm firmly in the Traditionalist camp of The Sophia Perennis on that score.

Ask Wil, he, if not others here (ACOT?) will have memories of that. Suffice to say if you think Wil and I 'go at it', you ain't seen the 'alf of it! :D
 

Thomas

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Actually, for those who do remember, Andrew (he of many names, although he never intended that as a disguise) PM'd me a while ago with. He read something that brought me to mind, and I have to say he was most cordial note.
 

EdgyDolmen

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Nick - To some degree. I certainly could not offer any intellectual or even clever remarks but if you lead, I will follow.

My introduction was a book left to me by my father. The book is Cosmic Consciousness, M. Bucke, first 1901 (will make the hair on your neck stand up - great book) and so is The Secret Doctrine.
 

EdgyDolmen

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Hello Thomas - I would have been shocked had you no introduction to Blavatsky :)

Yes you and Wil seem comfortable with confrontations. Just wait. I am still a Newbie. Words, used well, are great.
 

wil

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a figment of your imagination
Thomas and I are on quite friendly terms...we have our moments...but it is SG who used to toss a pint a guiness on me in the OFC...

It is all in love tho..... that is what I keep telling myself.
 

A Cup Of Tea

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Actually, for those who do remember, Andrew (he of many names, although he never intended that as a disguise) PM'd me a while ago with. He read something that brought me to mind, and I have to say he was most cordial note.

I often find that he starts out that way, and since feelings aren't expressed very well like this I'm always surprised when I realise that I'm actually in a heated discussion with him. I don't think he handles disagreement very well, but I haven't been around as long as you so I can't really say.

And yes, yes I remember your confrontations with wil. He said, staring distantly into a memory deeply buried.
 

Devils' Advocate

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In this so called Reality. Well, most of the time.
DA,

I would add that, as the 'mind' returns to the pool of energy that is the universe, the borders of the 'mind' remain intact.

Would you agree? Or do you see the 'little pieces' mixing with other pieces of the universe, creating a different 'individual' for the succeeding incarnation?

Well we are really only throwing darts at a board at this point, right? Who can say whether it is the one, the other, or something else entirely. With that in mind - my intuition is that it is more little pieces of many previous individuals making a new individual for the succeeding reincarnation.

My thoughts on this follow how I perceive matter and energy to work in our reality. An ice cube is heated into steam, the solid dissipates as gas into the room. Allowing the some of the gas to condense into water again, then putting it into the freezer and one gets another ice cube.

But not the same molecules that were the original, although some of the original might be in the mix. Now if an ice cube were put in a hermetically sealed chamber and the same process run, one probably would end up with most of the original cube at the end as in the beginning.

Matter and energy, by and large, do not exist within any sort of vacuum chamber though. They exist along with all the other matter and energy flowing thru-out reality.

The big question about my supposition is - does mind energy work the same way as all other types of energy? Or is mind energy, i.e. persona, somehow different. Again time for the dart board. I see no reason, however, why mind energy would act any differently from all other forms of energy.

I might add that I see the same process occurring in the religions that believe one's persona goes on to exist in some form of afterlife. In actuality all that makes you you is simply remixed with all that is all when one dies. Slivers of you may live on after death, in a billion different ways. But the mind energy that made you unique in the material world is gone forever.
 

donnann

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If one reincarnates as a deer, a dog, a rat, a rock, or algae...

You appear to be supposing that that is worse than being human...that this is a downward spiral, or step back.

Should I have graduated in science and been a bio chemist creating miraculous drugs saving the world but in my retirement decided to take up art... I would have to take beginning art class... Not a step back in any way shape or means... a step sideways maybe to learn a different skill.... Similarly being reincarnated as a lesser being could just be that you need to increase the trait that that animal carries so much better than humans...
I do believe in reincarnation but dont believe you can reincarnate into anything other than what you are...a human reincarnates into a human not a dog.
 
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