Were it not for Death, do you think Religion and Faith would even Exist?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Namaste Jesus, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    What right thing? I shoot you, you bounce back up...no harm no foul... No one eats healthy food...some people don't eat...can't die...interesting conundrum
     
  2. Senthil

    Senthil Well-Known Member

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    In Hinduism, and in science the body is just a temporal thing. In Hinduism the essence of the soul is the only part that remains immortal. To say the body remains intact is an incredibly long ways from Hinduism. Cremation further illustrates the point. There is certainly no resurrection in Hinduism.
     
  3. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    All very true, but the question posed in the thread and the single sentence you quoted from my recent post are strictly hypothetical. "What if " scenarios, not based in fact or even logic for that matter.

    Suppose these things were true. Would religion still exist? Clearly, as you point out, the concept is so far removed from Hinduism it at least, would not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  4. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Is the idea for God the reason for religion? Or is the idea of religion the reason for God. Good cases could be made for both I suspect. The more I study this, the more convinced I grow that, whether there are Gods or not, religions are completely created by mortals for mortals.
     
  5. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    More then anything else, I suspect that depends on if there are divines and the nature of those divines. And that's where faith begins.
     
  6. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Whereas, as I stated, I don't think whether there are Divines or not is relevant. But then we two do seem to have differing views on of a lot of discussions!
     
  7. Shibolet

    Shibolet Well-Known Member

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    My thinking about death is based on Logic. Therefore, I have nothing to say spiritually about it but physiologically. We all die because we have been born. Death is only the third phase of the cycle which constitutes of birth, life and death. IMHO, death has nothing to do with religion and faith.
     
  8. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    Ok, but when it comes right down to it, what do most religions teach? How best to lead our lives in order to insure the best possible result upon our demise.
     
  9. Senthil

    Senthil Well-Known Member

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    There is no death, only transition ... according to Hinduism anyway. 'Our demise' is a myth, unless of course you believe you are the physical body.
     
  10. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    Senthil... Fair enough. Hinduism does indeed teach that death is but transition. But when does that transition take place? After our physical demise. Correct? That's not to imply however, that our physical death is the end of us or that our current physical form is all we are. Far from it.

    Hinduism also teaches how we should live now, Dharma, Kama, Artha and so forth in order to achieve the best possible transition. Though conceptual interpretation differs greatly, that's the same idea behind most religions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
  11. Senthil

    Senthil Well-Known Member

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    NJ, the physical demise you refer to is our dropping off of the physical body, and part of the transition. It's difficult to communicate when our personal pronouns mean something different in the respective subconscious. (very different paradigms, again) When I say, read, or hear 'I, we, our, your," etc. I automatically feel and think and connote the self-effulgent soul body that continues to reincarnate until moksha is attained. But when whatever it is that is speaking or writing the words I read from you, it's not the same. (Most likely ego, of small self, as that's the common western way of thinking)

    So I (this soul body, operating through this physical body, mind, etc., during this incarnation) (that's way too long to do every time) reiterate ... the east and west paradigms are far apart.
     
  12. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    No argument there. That's what I meant when I said, "conceptual interpretation differs greatly". The overall goal however is the same. What differs is how we go about achieving that goal. I liken it to painting a house. One fellow uses a 2 inch brush and spends the better part of a year accomplishing his goal and the other uses a spray gun and gets the job done in an hour. Net result, both fellows end up with beautiful homes.
     
  13. Shibolet

    Shibolet Well-Known Member

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    There is death alright and, our demise is no myth. Only being born, we are presupposed to die. And the reason why I agree with the OP that if there was no death, religion and faith would not exist is because religion and faith are based on the fear of death as a result of the lack of knowledge of the afterlife.
     
  14. Senthil

    Senthil Well-Known Member

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    I simply will never understand this. It's beyond my field of experience, knowledge, just as I can't understand how members of ISIS do what they can. I will always believe that the goals are extremely different, and you won't. There is no point in continuing a discussion when the paradigms differ so greatly. Aum
     
  15. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    As you wish........
     
  16. Senthil

    Senthil Well-Known Member

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    What's to fear? For mystical Hindus it's a time to rejoice... "Yay, I get a new body! This round of karma is over!"

    But yes many people do fear it, even deny it. I'm just not one of them.
     
  17. Senthil

    Senthil Well-Known Member

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    double post ... deleted
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  18. Kathie Bondar

    Kathie Bondar Author of "Voices from the parallel universe"

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    I think it might be more than just fear of death but also a subconscious knowledge we are born with of another place. Which brings me to reincarnation.
    I happen to be the person who worked out a reasonable method of interpreting dreams and telepathy, defining dreams as telepathy in the sleeping state. They both tend to symbolize, thus need to be learned. Telepathy is the universal means of communication, this is how the fetus communicates with his mother, this is how God communicates, this is how we can communicate with the "other world", the world beyond. The surprise is that when you ask impossible question such as this, you do get answers. I did ask this very same question and the answer was we are born with the fear of death to prevent suicide. Life can be difficult sometimes, but no matter what, we are expected to cope whatever is thrown at us and not just bail out, thinking, 'Oh, I will be reborn'. Tibetans were pioneers in studying the reincarnation cycles and quickly corrupted it. If they mess up their lives they can just get out and be reborn to a better situation.
     
  19. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    From an Islamic perspective, If there were no death, there is no test. If there is no test there is no reward or punishment. Without the possibility of success or failure, there is no reason to do as told. The only way a religion would come about is if the God/Gods revealed themselves to at least 1 person. Then that person would tell the story forever, probably convincing all who came about of the truth. Also, this theory would rely on an infinite landscape which is above our comprehension anyway.
     
  20. Shibolet

    Shibolet Well-Known Member

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    Religions as death is concerned act like dogs who behave well or perform funny to please their masters because their eyes are on the reward in the hand of the master. The human wish of "the best possible result upon his or her demise" is no different from the treat promised to the dogs or slaves to work better or to obey the laws. Once I asked a religious Jewish man if he practiced his religion for a possible good result in the afterlife, his answer was promptly negative: No, I practice my religion because it is a Jewish thing to do and not for any possible afterlife reward. When we ever come to this understanding, we will do much better.
     
  21. Elfiet

    Elfiet Comme je fus

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    Suppose we had no doubts about the afterlife. If there was only one explanation of (after)death and it was accepted by all without question. Would we still need religion to reinforce that belief?

    Death is a test of faith.

    Religion can be used more than to just to self-serve ourselves to secure an appropriate afterlife. Religion is used to find acceptance in the death of those around us. (what's that quote: Dying is easy - living is the hard part).

    Yes, agree with this line of reasoning. You got me thinking..... Let me ponder this some more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015

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