ISIS... what are they thinking?

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by wil, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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  2. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    They want attention. They understand that the more outrageous the act, the more attention they will get. They may be the scum of the earth but they are geniuses at the modern social media game.
     
  3. DavidMcCann

    DavidMcCann Hellenist

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    I think you both misunderstand Da'ish. They aren't doing things for the sake of propaganda, but because they believe in what they are doing. Destroying Nimrud is like the Taliban's destruction of the Buddhist statues, or the destruction of artworks by Protestants in the Reformation. Evil religions cause people to do evil things.

    And please don't call them Isis: it blasphemes the Goddess. Imagine the reaction if the acronym were "Jesus".
     
  4. EdgyDolmen

    EdgyDolmen Active Member

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    Barbaric thugs by any name and with any motive are despicable.

    Blaspheme? ISIS? You are of course referring to the extremely ancient religion of resurrection -- Osiris , Isis and the son Horus. Maybe we should refer to Jesus as Horus...
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Blaspheme Isis..funny...

    So the headline of propaganda video... it isn't propaganda? What I am confused as is to how this will increase folks support of their efforts...mayhaps I should ask this on the Islam board...
     
  6. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    It is always fascinating to consider the motivations of murdering psychopaths, especially when they use religion to justify their evil deeds.
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    I don't think they seek acceptance. Quite the opposite.

    Yep. The attraction will last as long as they are seen to be 'winning'.

    As for damaging ancient sites, this has gone on since the 1st Gulf War. We did our own share of bulldozing ancient sites, and after the fall of Baghdad, it was noticed that while the Oil Ministry was occupied and defended by US troops, looters ransacked the rest of the city. This spread to the rest of the country. US and UK forces made no attempt whatsoever to bring the situation under control.

    Oh it is ... as DA said, it's all about propaganda, and so far they have been far more successful at it than we.

    Remember that:
    1: Groups like this, the Taliban, etc., represent 'instant justice' at a grass-roots level, to people who are governed by corrupt regimes that are often funded and supported by outsiders, the US in particular.
    2: The US especially makes deals with the local 'war-lords' in their attempts to being the situation under control. Then, of course, it turns out they can't control the war-lords they bought off – this was the policy in Afghanistan and it was clearly never going to work ...
    3: ...

    I could go on, but the sad fact is that groups such as this give a voice to those who believe they don't have one. They also give the chance for those who feel they have been kicked around to kick some ass of their own.

    What we in the West continue to ignore is that the 'radicalisation' of our young, something we all beat our chests in despair about, can only happen in the wake of alienation. But sorting the roots of alienation means addressing big issues like racism, the distribution of wealth (which now more than ever, and more obviously more than ever, is being siphoned off to the very rich) and other social concerns ... but that costs too much money.

    Couple to that, with the collapse of communism in Europe, and the near disappearance of Russia as 'the Evil Empire', the US needs an international Bad Guy to maintain its defence spending, etc., and Islam fills that gap ...

    A by-product of which is that Islam becomes the magnet for the disaffected.
     
  8. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    Is ISIS evil, Yes. Is what they are doing going with the Quran, no. They are led by men who are out for personal gain, or at least misguided spiritual gain. We muslims take a lot of flack now because we are an easy target for the media. Most Christians know nothing of the beliefs so the war machine can instill ideas from fringe groups as our creed overall. I do find it interesting however that with all this media blast against us, we are experiencing the largest growth of any religion on earth atm. Even in America it is the fastest growing religion. Yet it is always on the news as the next evil person.

    Muslim man crashes a plane, terrorist.
    Christian man crashes a plane, mentally depressed individual who should have received help.

    Funny how that spins
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    The question is.... Do you believe this video of ISIS is portraying Muslims correctly? And will increase interest in learning more and conversion of more folks to Islam?
     
  10. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so, Joe. Man crashes plane because of severe depression; man crashes plane to make a political statement - they cannot and should not be reported the same. Intent makes the difference. Not that I disagree with you that Muslims are getting a lot of undeserved bad press, because they are. It is your actual example that is flawed, not your point.
     
    wil likes this.
  11. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    DA, I think you are getting my point. The example I was thinking about when I wrote that, was a man who planned to crash his plane to "show the airline" IDK if he was successful or not, as it has been a while.

    Wil, I think I answered your first question quite clearly. No they do not portray Muslims correctly. And for the second it seems to be the case. A few surveys of recent convert/reverts shows that most started by trying to prove how evil Islam is in response to the terrorist issues. another large portion by trying to prove a religion couldn't be as bad as they had heard from media. So
     
  12. farhan

    farhan Active Member

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    Well basically they are mercenaries. You fund them, they will work for you. They were used in Libya to get Gaddafi killed. Mission accomplished. Now Libya is crap but who cares. They were used in Syria by Saudis, Americans and Turks. Turks were funding them as counter Kurd forces while US/Saudis as counter Asad. Turks realized they can be a bigger menace then Kurdish separatists. Saudis are slowly realizing that they can easily spread to their own oil rich territory. So we are left with US. Americans know ISIS can never hurt them, so they can easily be used to continue Shia/Sunni slaughter.

    Now ISIS owns many oil fields, so they are a state of their own. Beyond that, what they are thinking? no idea. Most probably they are just enjoying the party, kill, loot, rape, have fun.

    Islam? who is representing Islam these days? the ones on the news dont represent Islam, they are only good for ratings. There are many people around who deserve to be representing islam. But that wont sell as good as some militant sunni raping and then cutting the throat of some shia girl, and then screaming allahu akbar. Awesome news.
     
  13. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Very good point Farhan. Islam is being represented by who the media decides they should be represented. Which is NOT the ones who live peacefully. No media headlines there, so we get the ones who are the ones who are most off the deep end, because they DO make headlines, which means more viewers, which means more money to the news media.

    Truth in advertising has always been an oxymoron. Truth in news media has also become an oxymoron!
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Absolutely agree that the media is fully versed and involved in this situation....

    But ISIS put out this video... I am contemplating their motives... they knew it would get around... Did they think it would garner world support for their cause?
     
  15. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    TBH from what I hear from friends in the Arab/Paki/Afghani/Turk worlds, the ISIS propaganda machine isn't spreading themselves as a "True Islam" movement (well they are now, and I'll get on to that) They were advertising as a mechanism to do what the big powers refused to do, attack Assad. After his escapades a couple years ago, noone has been a fan of him (except his buddies in Iran and Russia). Many came to the call of Jihad, in a righteous manner... and many soon found out the righteousness of their propaganda was not there, leading to mass desertion. However, it also led many to like the Warped type of Shariah that ISIS forces. Mainly due to the subjugation and forced marriages of young women to fighters regardless of their agreement or not. The men that could not afford multiple wives in their homeland under Shariah law (we can discuss this somewhere else if you want, but for now I will suffice to say the Quran specifies up to 4 wives given certain conditions are met). Now they justify their gathering of wives by getting money from their duties in ISIS and picking them from a line based on rank of man gets 1st pick. It is sickening. those left after choosing is over are chosen as slaves or killed (basically if she is still young and decent looking she is a slave, if noone wants to have their way with them, they kill them...)

    I do not think there is a peaceful resolution to that plague. The media wants a war for ratings, but what they are doing is causing a rift with too many people. I do not want another war where lines are not clearly drawn as that leads to too many civilian deaths of people uninvolved. But I fear that may be necessary. Sometimes to kill a disease you have to remove some good tissue around it. Sad fact of reality.

    Also to answer your question more directly, yes, they do know these actions will garner support from people who are oppressed thinking they will be free. It seems to be working as well, sadly.
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Ok...I need to be clear... I am talking specifically about releasing a video of them destroying artifacts in museums.

    1. Will this garner worldwide non muslim support?

    2. Will this garner worldwide moderate muslim support?

    3. Do they care? Is it designed to incite?
     
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Interesting that ISIS is destroying the roots of Moslem culture as much as any other ... They do not represent a millennia old tradition, they're actually closer to the western-inculcated idea of totalitarianism.
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    No. But that's not the point.

     
  19. farhan

    farhan Active Member

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    Things like blowing up Jonah's tomb, whom exactly are they inciting? Abrahamics as a whole? I dont see any higher objective in their activities other than "mindless pursuit of pleasure of the sickest kind".

    Secondly, where do they get their recruits from? Not much from S.Asians or turks. Mostly arabs which kind of makes sense. But why westerners? Their message obviously is attractive for some people out there
     
  20. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    OK, such as their intent to destroy the Kabaah in Mecca...

    No, destroying of history will turm more against them, and bring more likeminded to them. While I understand their argument and basis, it is still misguided.

    Moderate Muslim... I hate to split hairs, but I think you are looking for true Muslims. Non-liberal, stick to the book Muslims. And for the most part no, most people see them as a disease.

    Their goal is to cause destruction and mayhem for peaceful people. So no they do not care, and yes they WANT to incite fighting against them.
     

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