Who's Sin is it Anyway?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Aussie Thoughts, Sep 10, 2015.

  1. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    If there are any atheists that support making people give up religion by force on YouTube or other such social media, I would ask you to point them out to me. Aside from anti-religious governments such as the former Soviet Union and China. Maybe that is what you meant? I know of no individuals who actively are attempting to drive people from their religion. Wishing they would? Yes. Mocking them that they should? Yes. Forcing them to? No.
     
  2. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    Convert. Grew up as a Baptist.
     
  3. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I would say a constant mocking and demonifying us all is as close to force as one can do on Media
     
  4. Emi

    Emi Havist

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    Oh, thanks fantastic. I'm always interested in speaking with those that convert into Islam.
    What made you decide to convert, or what resonated with you in Islam that Christianity lacked?
     
  5. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Joe. Seriously? Mocking someone's beliefs can in no way be considered forcing someone to believe differently. Come on.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Mocking someone's belief is a direct attack on the individual and their intelligence...it is the assault side of assault(verbal violence) and battery (physical violence)...

    Me thinks I'm guilty of this...
     
  7. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    I think people around the world today who are physically being forced to change their faith on pain of death or torture would consider it ridiculous to suggest that someone mouthing off on YouTube is in any way forcing anyone to do anything. Heck you don't even have to watch them if they offend you!
     
  8. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I think it might be best to explore these questions further in one of the other threads, such as my Into thread. but in short, I believed the cores of christianity/judaism, but always found consistency to be lacking. In Islam, even through translation, I didn't have to guess which lines were manmade and which were God-spoken.
     
  9. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    different tactics, same process
     
  10. Emi

    Emi Havist

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    Oh wow, that is very profound. Do you have a link to the thread you mentioned?
     
  11. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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  12. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Or how about the end of a gun? Equally effective, no? Or threat of a noose? Seems to me a WHOLE LOT of those who never "truly believed" would make themselves known under penalty of death.

    The problem is suggesting execution is even an option to test one's faith is a repulsive suggestion, and smacks of the prejudice of jizyah, the intolerance of Islam, and gross hatred of humanity on a wide scale.

    Maybe a better test is those who abandon their own country when the going gets tough?
     
  13. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    wow... you really twisted that one all up in an attempt to "show up" Islam. I'm wondering, is any of this what you got from my post, or you just twisting the words to further your "Islam is wrong" agenda. I'm not even going to comment on it until you tell me whether or not you seriously got that I was saying people should be tested at the tip of a sword. IF that is truly what you got, you sir will be wearing a dunce hat for a month.

    At no point in all of our arguments have you given any evidence that supports your 2nd paragraph. Yet you claim it all the time. Prejudice of Jizyah? You don't think it's fair that people who are outsiders living in foreign lands who are not required to contribute to society should help pay for the cost of living/protection? Intolerance of Islam? please elaborate... how is the 1 religion which is all encompassing intolerant? How is a religion which says that unbelieving people who live amongst believers are to be protected/nurtured/respected an intolerant religion? No we don't allow people to walk over us as the Christians have. We don't bend our laws to allow sin to spread more quickly as the Jews have. We encourage people to remain on the singular Best Path, unlike the Hindus have. That is not intolerance, that is looking out for the better good of humanity.

    The last statement, I'm pretty sure you got from me.
     
  14. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    It is not I who suggested a person's faith should be tested "at the tip of a sword." In fact, if I were to suggest Muslims should have their faith tested at the point of a sword...or any method of execution...you would be rightly indignant. Yet here you presume to tell me I am wrong. No sir, not this time...not in this life.

    Show me *one,* just one, convert from Christianity to Islam that has been threatened with death for doing so in the past two hundred years.

    I can show converts from Islam to Christianity that have been threatened by authority with death for converting. Those that assist in the conversion are under penalty of death, by the authorities. Jizyah...pay an additional tax or convert, or die...and the all too often convenience of the state is death if one doesn't convert.

    And you dare preach to me about faith at the point of a sword! I will say the same with a sword at my throat!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  15. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    Scholarly interfaith at it's finest, no? I don't see why you sett others to a standard you don't wish to follow yourself.
     
    Namaste Jesus likes this.
  16. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    What fantasy land?

    Seriously...that might be the words, but the practice is far from this...and anyone with half a brain can see it for themselves. Islamic nations are among the least tolerant of any states.

    "So they're not 'real' Muslims"...yeah, then who are? I'm supposed to take the words on faith and ignore the reality all around me.

    Not.
     
  17. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Like that's ever mattered anyway?
     
  18. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    So I shouldn't expect interfaith from you? I don't expect it from most people here, but I know they all try.
     
  19. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    Going off topic is one thing. I mean trains do fly off the track from time to time, but this locomotive flew off the track, rolled down the hill, crashed and burned! Oh, the Horror... The Horror!!!!!!!:eek:
     
  20. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    Then Who did? I certainly did not, I don't see any other comments suggesting it.
    fair enough... indignant I am. I see noone else suggesting that so I'm guessing either A you wanted to say it was like what you claim I said, or B you are just pulling things out of your anal cavity.

    I don't presume.... I NEVER SAID IT, NOR DID YOU ACTUALLY READ THAT!
    Just the ones who went to Islam? Are we discounting The Christian terrorist organizations of Central africa? or the Russian bombardment of Chechniya (and any converts), or how about the recent converts who went to live with the Turks in China... those disregarded? How about those that McVeigh(SP?) killed for the "non-christian" actions of Abortion.

    gotta love politics huh... so does the religion allow it? or are they working off their own will? hmmm.... you are smart enough to know the answer, but your hatred all of a sudden is clouding your mind.

    Then you truly believe what you believe is worth dieing for, great. me too... Would I want to be tested in this way? No. Hence MY ENTIRE POST.
    just so you can read how this all got started.


    This world... it is a religion consisting of billions of people. And you are referencing what 5 countries consisting less the 15% of the entire MUSLIM POPULATION. How have you been slighted? Where do you live that muslims are all around you not being tolerant. While you are at it, please tell me where in the Quran intolerance of a group of people is preached... you're a smart guy sometimes, I'm sure you have read the text of those you so dispise.
     

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