Discussion in 'Islam' started by Devils' Advocate, Nov 15, 2015.
You made me watch bill Maher...
She said she wrote these rights...which are all already supported by Islam...
She let him get away with induction that genital mutilation is Islamic
I tried watching it but didn't get very far, which is my own limitation, I know.
I think he and I have very different views on what liberal values are, I think he's definition is linked to political positions at a specific point in time, but I see it more as individuals being free to live their own lives in a manner of our own choosing. I think he has a set idea of us vs them, liberals vs conservatives, good vs. evil. Too me it's all moral relativism. Russia, Asia, the middle east all choose to order their society slightly different than the west and I think the assumption that the difference is forced upon them or that there is a moral or political superiority somewhere is rather ignorant.
Sorry I didn't go further into the video to analyse what perhaps you wanted to highlight.
I think their govts were forced upon them....by bloody revolutions which murdered millions of the opposition to keep dissidents obedient.
The people of the people party didn't choose anyrhing
So are we saying that Asra Nomani is a fraud?
Fraud at what? Muslim or Liberal?
Take your pick. You tell me. The one, the other, both? Is she a fraud in your opinion? If so in which, or both.
Not in my mind...and maybe since there is such a far right, she seems liberal... Yet before the Ayatollah... Before the Taliban, Kabul, beiruit, Tehran... Were full of moderate Muslims...night clubs, beaches, tourists...
So no one wants to touch this subject? I was particularly hoping our Islamist members would speak up. Forget Maher; we all know where he stands. It is Nomani's views that interest me. Here is an Islamic woman who is also a feminist and a crusader for moderation in her religion. No one has an opinion about her? Or is it no one is willing to share their opinion about her?
Give it time...I expect we'll see some thoughts
Having lived amongst Muslims, I know many like her. No big deal.
She is obviously liberal and doesn't take the Quaran literally or as 'God's Word'.
Wil said "She let him get away with induction that genital mutilation is Islamic".
Yes it's true that genital mutilation is not Quaranic, but it is widespread amongst many Muslim societies. Just as the complete covering of women is not Quaranic, but has become law in many Islamic societies.
So, because she IS liberal her base reference point is not the Quaran, but rather the society.
It's a pity that more like her(in all the religions) don't get publicity. It would help curb the fear and hatred of Muslims.
It's not Quranic, nor is it widespread in Islamic Societies. It is widespread in African Societies.
I didn't get that she doesn't take it literally or not God's word. She just has a very loose interpretation of it, which can be common. Many of her assertions are what scholars would say are chances. My wife doesn't usually wear Hijab because she doesn't want her coworkers to feel nervous about conversing and acting their normal selves. Her decision is based on some "gray area" Quranic interpretation. Which means God may allow it or it may be a minor sin, to which she fasts just in case extra days throughout the year.
I agree, except I think it would help more to cover people who are strict in their following who are equally peaceful and agreeable. There are many to choose from.
I had the same issue, I'll try to finish it so I can answer more correctly, but just realize ^^^^ didn't watch..... lower I did...
I wouldn't consider myself an American Liberal by any stretch, but I agree that his "Liberalism" is more a Zionist Dominance Conservatism Liberal. (that took about 20 tries to get what I wanted to get across)
Agree, and the us, is rarely a case of USA vs... It is almost always a Maher supporters vs everyone.
And that is absolutely one huge problem in any discussion of society. The truth is not everyone wants the US or Euro Society.
In some cases, but not all... probably a lot smaller percentage than we get as a label here...
no, I think she's highly mistaken, and quite uninformed as to Islamic principals. She seems to agree too much with Maher on things and learned Muslim wouldn't such as her comments on Shariah being a terrible thing, or the inheritance laws (Which I agree takes a while to understand why they are the way they are). To say she is a fraud is to say she is intentionally misleading people. To which I have no evidence to accuse her of such.
yes, and these led to many issues as well. I know we will disagree on this, but there is a such a thing as too much freedom. Allowing alcohol consumption and encouraging its use in such setting of mixed company leads to many immoral actions, both intentional and unintentional. Now if you are using the term Moderate to refer to peaceful (which our non-english language has seemed to morph into) then they are still there as well, but the news has no interest in things that don't happen.
Just because it's funny, "The beaches and tourists are still there wil"
I didn't want to watch the video.
due to connotations of Islamists, I would think you would use the more Islamic instead?
I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't well received in most Muslim circles. She seems to be professing and accepting many non-Islamic ideas and passing them on as Islamic.
I disagree, My wife is a feminist, I've met many of Muslim Feminists, but none that would denounce the tenants of Islam as she did here. She essentially is saying, "I believe in Allah, and his messenger, but I don't like Allah's message and I don't support it". From an Islamic scholar standpoint, she is by no means well versed, and her agreements with Maher are almost treasonous to the Ummah (Muslim Following).
Maybe a few more on the way... but I can't imagine many agreeing with her or her agreements with Maher
If somebody doesnt consider Quran to be the word of God, than why do these people call themselves muslim? Nobody is forcing you to. Just be a liberal whatever, whats the point being a muslim.
Doesn't every Isis member who kills innocents violating the Quran? (Therefore either not believing it to be the word of God or openly violating gods word?).
I think there is yet another punishment for judging who is and is not Muslim..
Because there are many people in all religions who are there just culturally, they are just not really religious. They do however identify culturally.
I'd love to but I'm just not informed. Feminism covers a huge spectrum of ideas where a lot of it would be very surprising to most of us here, and I can't really say anything about her being or not being Muslim, other Muslims might but in the end I guess it's between her and Allah?
yes... we do not know what is in her heart... Only Allah does.
They are being taught violence and backing it up piecemilled with Quranic phrases. The problem is whoever is instructing them obviously has an agenda... and the only agenda most Muslims see is them killing Muslims directly and indirectly...
There is, but as the word extremist and fundamentalist is being changed for use in a situation not really conducive to it's meaning, Common speech with non-muslims leads us to not really focus on "Islamic" or "Muslim" and sometimes we say they are not Muslim when in all actuality we are meaning that they are not acting Islamically. There is no excommunication in Islam... one who attempts it is committing a grave sin.
This isn't going to work in this case as she promotes herself as a learned Muslim, a scholar of sorts. that is a big claim for someone to make, and then casually denounce large parts of the religion. I don't think she is culturally Muslim, or "born into" Islam, but rather doubting the word because she is enticed by the "freedom" of the western style.
The thing is that once you stop believing Quran as the word of God, you are by definition outside Islam. When you are outside Islam, whatever you say will be considered your personal opinion, not Islam's opinion. For example I am not a hindu, so I dont try to modify it either. Its going to be a hindu's decision what he wants to do with his religion.
Separate names with a comma.