Whats Your Religion? (An Interfaith Dialogue)

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by Syam, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. Syam

    Syam New Member

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    Topics of discussion:
    -What are the fundamental beliefs in your religion?
    -What are the fundamental doctrines of your religion?
    -What are the main ritual and rites?
    -What/Who are the authorities of your religion?
    -How do you regard the other sects/thoughts in your religion?
    -What are the problems faced in practicing your religion?
     
  2. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you get us started with your responses.
     
  3. Syam

    Syam New Member

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    I'm doing an assignment actually. The conversation has to be of learning and sharing from other religion. Will you be interested?
     
  4. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I think this is largely a poor choice of questions... particularly the last 2... But I'll play the game, briefly...

    - One God, Prophets from Adam to Mouhamed (PBUTA), Jesus (PBUH) is the Messiah, etc.
    - Submit to the only God's will, as described in his word (Quran) and the example of his prophets (PBUTA) (Quran and Hadith)
    - 5 Pillars of Islam are Take Shahada (declaration of faith in 1 God, and Mouhamed (PBUH) as his last and final messenger), Establish the 5 obligatory prayers (as demonstrated by Mouhamed (PBUH)), Pay Zakaat (obligatory tax to feed and care for the poor amounting to 2.5% of income), Fast During Ramadan (Month in which the Quran was revealed on the Arabic calendar) from First light till sundown, Go to Hajj (pilgrimage to the Kabaa which is the place of worship Abraham (PBUH) built with his son Ishmael (PBUH))
    - The ultimate authority is God (Allah), as you are submitting to his will the only thing anyone else can force you to do is nothing. Imams and Sheiks (leaders of worship and scholars) provide instruction based on their understanding given that they normally have more knowledge than others, but one is free to refuse their advice if they see it as contradictory or insufficiently backed with evidences from authentic sources
    - There is only 1 Islam. Reformations are prohibited. There are a few schools of thought that differ, but the core beliefs stay the same. Most differences stem from politics in the early years of Islam.
    - None... Why would one follow a religion in which they have a problem with the practice? |||||| Just a thought, did you mean What geopolitical/societal instances place undue stress on practice? If this is you question, the largest issue is the vast over judgement and forced media explosion of hatred to followers. Political Candidates feed on the anger of the uninformed public and exacerbate the problem with an overindulgence of focus on small groups who claim ties with the religion yet don't even tend to cover the most basic of practice. Harassment, and non-cooperation tend to follow when one explains the errors of these views. Further issues arise from the amount of misinformation from sources who claim to study our text but claim to their followers things that have never existed in our beliefs.
     
  5. Syam

    Syam New Member

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    Syukran Brother for your reply. Salam to you as well.

    Didn't expect that you would reply to the post as I'm a Muslim as well. Forgot to say other religion than Islam. Anyways, the questions were set by my professor as a simple guideline to start with. But you nailed every question.

    Do you have any recommendation, a member/staff that I could do a dialogue with?



     
  6. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    Salaam Allahikum, Ramadan Mubarak,

    I do not, people come and go, if they see it, they might answer, these school helps usually get passed over.
     
  7. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    Gooday Syam,

    I think enough's already been written regarding the nuts and bolts of each religion to satisfy your query. So I'll leave you with something to throw at your teacher from the late George Carlin who said in his act;

    I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship Frisbees. We believe when you die your sole goes up on the roof and you can't get it down. The chief problem facing our faith are cracks in the sidewalk, uncovered storm drains and dogs.
     
    Namaste Jesus, Craz and Syam like this.
  8. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon everything is in pencil

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    I am a Baha'i from an agnostic perspective.

    Lots of Baha'i references that deal with this but . . .

    The Baha'i Faith believes in an evolving progressive Revelation for all of Creation and the spiritual evolution of humanity. Religions and faiths are belief systems that reflect God and Revelation from a human perspective from the time and culture the religion or faith originated. Creation and Revelation are basically one eternal process.

    The spiritual principles and Spiritual Laws basically: The unknowable oneness and unity of God known only through progressive Revelation. The unity of all religions in the progressive Revelation and spiritual evolution of humanity. Universal education f, or all male and female, Social and legal equality of men and women, elimination of slavery of all forms, the harmony of science and religion (science is a form of revelation of knowledge of our physical existence, and ALL religious texts including Baha'i scripture must be understood in the light of the evolving scientific knowledge of our physical existence.) the Relative evolving nature of human knowledge both physical and spiritual.

    Obligatory daily pray, rites of burial, and nothing else.

     
  9. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon everything is in pencil

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    If your dog gets your frisbee your toast, and end up chewed and flipping in the surf.
     
  10. Syam

    Syam New Member

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    Hi! How do I address you Sir?

    Btw thank you for your response and the time put in for the brief explainations. I've heard of Baha'i faith but never asked. Hope to learn more and understand from your perspective. Do correct me if I did not comprehend based on your perspective.

    Fundamental beliefs:
    Baha'i faith believe in Oneness of God (monotheistic) and unity of all revealed religions.

    This faith believes that throughout the history of mankind, the Revelation from God has been from the same and only God. There is a need to unify and seek a common ground for all the religions as the belief systems has been evolving from the human perspective due to time and culture.

    Fundamental doctrines:
    - All religious text (religions that are unified in Baha'i faith)
    - Baha'i Scriptures.

    Main rituals and rites:
    - Obligatory daily prayers
    - Burial for the deceased

    Authority of religion:
    - Baha'u'llah who was considered as a messenger of God after Muhammad I supposed? He also wrote the Baha'i Scriptures.

    Regarding other sects:
    I think it has been explained under fundamental beliefs.

    Problems practicing faith:
    Considering that you've addressed it from a personal perspective, I'm assuming that the environment that you lived in allows for religious freedom and there are no religious hatred or attack whether by the media or human interaction.

    So now with some questions for better understanding.

    Qns 1) Having to believe in unity of all religions, does a Baha'i have to learn all the revealed religions? So would the belief include Afterlife, the Day of Judgement, Angels, Life is based on ordained laws set by God?

    Qns 2) Holy Books/Scriptures are revealed to man. Do you consider all the Holy Books as words of God or just writings from human perspective of a belief system?

    Qns 3) What do you mean by progressive Revelation? Does it involves on-going Revelation till today or it has stopped after the time of Baha'u'llah?

    Qns 4) With all the Scriptures being fundamental doctrines, how does contradictions in one Scripture to another being viewed.

    Qns 5) Do you have fasting as part of your ritual since it has been mentioned in most Holy Scriptures?

    Qns 6) Will there be any more Prophets in the future after Baha'u'llah?
     
  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon everything is in pencil

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    Frank is fine.

    Btw thank you for your response and the time put in for the brief explainations. I've heard of Baha'i faith but never asked. Hope to learn more and understand from your perspective. Do correct me if I did not comprehend based on your perspective.

    Fundamental beliefs:
    Baha'i faith believe in Oneness of God (monotheistic) and unity of all revealed religions.

    This faith believes that throughout the history of mankind, the Revelation from God has been from the same and only God. There is a need to unify and seek a common ground for all the religions as the belief systems has been evolving from the human perspective due to time and culture.

    Fundamental doctrines:
    - All religious text (religions that are unified in Baha'i faith)
    - Baha'i Scriptures.

    Main rituals and rites:
    - Obligatory daily prayers
    - Burial for the deceased

    Authority of religion:
    - Baha'u'llah who was considered as a messenger of God after Muhammad I supposed? He also wrote the Baha'i Scriptures.

    Regarding other sects:
    I think it has been explained under fundamental beliefs.

    There is a spiritual law in the Baha'i Faith that forbids conflict, wars and other violence in the name of religion.

    So now with some questions for better understanding.

    Yes, the Baha'i Faith believes in the after life, angels possibly, and Spiritual Laws revealed by God. The believe in the Day of Judgement subject to understanding and interpretation. I will have to think about this, but on the surface the Day of Judgement occurs every time a new Revelation occurs.

    Both, but not 'just writings from human perspective.' The human element of scriptures reflects the human view of God and Revelation in the culture and time the Revelation occurred.

    Progressive revelation is the evolution of the spiritual knowledge and education of humanity. From our perspective there is no beginning nor end of Creation and Revelation.

    All scriptures are not fundamental doctrines. The Bible is a clear witness to this where the Old Testament to the New Testament shows a spiritual evolution from a more primitive system to Christianity.

    Yes, sun up to sunset for 19 days in the spring. The Baha'i Faith calendar is nineteen months of nineteen days with the New Year as March 21.

    Yes.
     
  12. Syam

    Syam New Member

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    Qns 1) Having to believe in unity of all religions, does a Baha'i have to learn all the revealed religions? So would the belief include Afterlife, the Day of Judgement, Angels, Life is based on ordained laws set by God?
    Ah I see. Do you have the same concept as Islam whereby the Day of Judgement is the end of all existence and Man will be judged by God to live in the Afterlife whether in Heaven or Hell?

    And every time a new Revelation occurs, does it come along with a new Prophet?


    Qns 2) Holy Books/Scriptures are revealed to man. Do you consider all the Holy Books as words of God or just writings from human perspective of a belief system?
    Help me further understand. Based on Islamic concept, the Holy Books are words of God. Therefore, God does not need any human view about Himself and instead only Him, the Creator, has the right to talk about Himself to His creations.

    So having Scriptures that are a product of man or having human views of God, how do Baha'i faith determine that they are no doubts of false information or errors or contradictions with any other Scriptures? Or how do Baha'i faith comprehend and accept these human element of scriptures.


    Qns 3) What do you mean by progressive Revelation? Does it involves on-going Revelation till today or it has stopped after the time of Baha'u'llah?
    Am I right say that spiritual knowledge will never be completed and continuously evolve? Therefore, it is possible that rituals and rites can evolve with time? (For example fasting 19 days in spring would increase to 20 days if new a Revelation state as such)


    Qns 4) With all the Scriptures being fundamental doctrines, how does contradictions in one Scripture to another being viewed.
    Do you think there is a need for spiritual evolution even though it involves human intervention? What are your views about the Qur'an which does not allow for any intervention or modified versions?


    Qns 6) Will there be any more Prophets in the future after Baha'u'llah?
    How would the followers know of the coming Prophets? Will their religion change into a new religion based on the Prophet's name?
     
  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon everything is in pencil

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    I believe the Day of Judgement is not the end of all existence and Man will be judged by God to live in the Afterlife whether in Heaven or Hell, it is an interpretation by some or many Christians and Muslims, but not all.

    No, the Baha'is do not believe there will be judgement Day where there will be the end of all existence and Man will be judged by God to live in the Afterlife whether in Heaven or Hell. When a new manifestation Judgement Day will be in the hearts of humanity whether they will accept or reject the new Revelation from God

    Yes, but there is also Revelation through the minds of humanity.

    In reality you cannot get around the human influence on scripture, because ultimately the Revelation comes through the human mind in one way or another, and the subject of human interpretations. There would not be so many different interpretations and divisions in Christianity, Islam and other religions if the scripture was clearly and concisely Revealed in the hand of God. It is well documented that the Pentateuch is compiled edited and redacted over time as a process without specific authors. It naive to think Exodus was written by Moses. or the other books have a known author. Most of Genesis and the other books of the Pentateuch evolved from older non-Hebrew texts, including Ugarit, Canaanite, and pre-Babylonian cuneiform texts.

    Yes, because God's knowledge is infinite and absolute, while human knowledge is obviously fallible, finite, and limited therefore humans physically and spiritually evolved in the image of God. The fact that religion progressively evolved and changed from the beginning in the Old Testament, to the New Testament, and the Koran, indicating Religion is progressive and changes. It is not logical if Revelation is progressive from the OT to the Koran that it suddenly stops, considering the the fractured divisions, conflicts, religious wars. The violent unresolved division in Islam are classic examples of the need of a new Revelation.

    It's possible, but a calendar of 20 days does not fit well, also the Islamic lunar calendar does fit well with the world use of calendars. This is a trivial consideration. The important changes are in the spiritual laws, and restoring the valid teachings of past religions and preaching the renewed message of unity among the religions, and the end of schisms based on human interpretations of scripture and tradition.

    The spiritual evolution does not involve specifically human intervention. Change with new Revelation takes place despite human intervention. Most human intervention takes place to prevent change, and violently oppose those that believe differently.

    The belief of religions not allowing intervention nor modified version over time is universal with all ancient religions. It is the claim of Judaism against Christianity and Islam and Baha'i. It is the claim of Christianity against Islam and Baha'i. and of course the claim Islam against the Baha'i Faith and anything that comes after Islam. Claims of heresy are universal with all religions, against other religions and the result is often violence. Nonetheless interpretation, commentary and editions occur in all religions adding, interpreting, intervening, and modifying religions, and also creating many sects and divisions that do not agree on the modifications and interventions. Many of these attempts at modifications and interventions are an attempt to address a changing world that the religion awkwardly no longer fits.

    When the Judgement Days come down, some accept and others deny the new message. This has always been true of Revelations from God throughout history.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  14. Syam

    Syam New Member

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    Qns 1) Having to believe in unity of all religions, does a Baha'i have to learn all the revealed religions? So would the belief include Afterlife, the Day of Judgement, Angels, Life is based on ordained laws set by God?

    Qns 2) Holy Books/Scriptures are revealed to man. Do you consider all the Holy Books as words of God or just writings from human perspective of a belief system?

    Qns 3) What do you mean by progressive Revelation? Does it involves on-going Revelation till today or it has stopped after the time of Baha'u'llah?

    Qns 4) With all the Scriptures being fundamental doctrines, how does contradictions in one Scripture to another being viewed.

    Qns 6) Will there be any more Prophets in the future after Baha'u'llah?
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon everything is in pencil

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    Syam: Your last post had odd formating and was difficult to respond to. I will do this one section at a time.

    Yes.

    First Revelation 'through the minds of humans' does not change nor influence the scripture Revelation itself. Over time the positive spiritual change in the world, inspiration of new changes in the world that inspires knowledge of science, and spiritual evolution of humanity. I believe people who receive this personal Revelation do not know nor claim they received the Revelation. I can give you examples in the future, after giving it some thought.

    It is too close to the present revelation to have much to deal with concerning future prophets.

    Actually if you read the Old Testament closely you will find that it refers to more than one messiah. I do not believe the Torah (Old Testament) explicitly refers to a final prophet and thus a final Revelation. This conclusion is basically an interpretation of scripture. The same is true of the New Testament in Christianity. The "end of an age" in the scripture is interpreted as the End of the world.[/quote]
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  16. Syam

    Syam New Member

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    Apologies. I had to rearrange to document it into my assignment. You can just indicate the qns number and your response.
     
  17. Syam

    Syam New Member

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    May I know as well which verse in the Old Testament which refers to more than one Messiah?
     
  18. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    If so (and I agree it is so) this phrase is the most misunderstood in Christianity. Or at least in American Christianity, which is the only versions from which I have personal experience. Then I suspect that a lot of the supposed misunderstanding is in fact stated as such by people who believe it no more than me but spout it as a useful tool for their personal agendas.
     
  19. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    I don't know if "end of age" is the most misunderstood, but it ranks right up there. By some interpretations, mine included, "end of age" means just that. There are 3 earth/heaven ages or eras of which we are in the second. End of age as used in the NT refers to the end of the current earth/heaven age and beginning of the third and final age with heaven established on earth and all life returning to spiritual form. I think the confusion centers around life in the flesh and all worldly things associated with it coming to an end . Many interpret this as the earth itself being destroyed.
     
  20. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    I am a Mercuræn which is a branch of the Western Left Hand Path and Luciferianism
    Our fundamental belief is founded on the Principles of Internal Alchemy, a Philosophy which prescribes that we are fallen Lucifers in this objective / physical state of Being, and that through separation and control of the objective universe we can Become more than Human and ultimately bring the Current of our Higher Self into our self thus attaining Mercurius Consciousness.
    Our main rites consist of practices and disciplines which separate our consciousness from the objective universe allowing us to experience our higher Self
    We are our own authorities
    There are no other sects in this faith, we accept some Satanic and Luciferian principles but not all
    Any problems within this faith is understood as an adversity and through mastery of these adversities wisdom is achieved
     

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