Nine Religions of Divine Origin

Discussion in 'Baha'i' started by 16Masail, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. 16Masail

    16Masail Bahá'i

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    So nine existing religions are of divine origin and according to my calculation, their total membership encompasses 3/4 of humanity. Therefore, in general, all religions are of divine origin but I do find this statement to be misleading.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    You know, I never did a count of the nine...

    Religion of the Bab? Isn't that part of bahai?

    And now I have to look up Sabean's?
     
  3. 16Masail

    16Masail Bahá'i

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    This is my answer to the question of who are the Sabaeans. They are more commonly called, "Mandaeans".

    Bábism (the Báb) is distinct from the Báhai Faith (Bahá'u'lláh) just as Mandaeism (John the Baptist) is distinct from Christianity (Christ).

    Have you seen a Christian read the Book of John? Similarly, you would hardly see a Bahá'i read the Bayán (holy book of the Báb).
     
  4. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Hello and welcome. I have some difficulties with the claims of this individual.

    "These religions are not the only true religions that have appeared in the world, but are the only ones still existing."

    Do tell. Don't let the other 4,200 religions that are in existence right now find out, even if they are not 'true' religions. Oh and 16% of the religious pie are the non-religious by the way!
     
  5. 16Masail

    16Masail Bahá'i

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    Sadly, I am probably doing more harm than good to the Faith due to my lack of political correctness. I'm not the type of person to sugarcoat the message in order to attract converts.
     
  6. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Masail,

    I see that the Japanese Shinto religion is not on your list. I also see that the American Indian religions are not on your list.
     
  7. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Where's the source for your claim there are 4,200 religions? Wikipedia? Wikipedia claims that according to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world. Wikipedia's source takes me to adherents.com, where they obviously count each sect as a religion. By this criterion Shoghi Effendi's statement about Islam or Buddhism includes those various sects counted as religions too, making the number of "still existing" religions rise dramatically. "A good word is as a good tree: its roots firm and its branches in the sky" (Quran 14.24). The branches (sects) of the tree (major religion) aren't counted as separate religions in the Baha'i Faith.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    This does rather seem a list formed by 'local' intelligence rather than any 'revelation', and then again, I can think of no instance where an oracle or prophet has ever given information about a culture of which the prophet or oracle was totally unaware! If there were evidence of a Hebrew prophet of the Old Testament condemning Brahminism, Shinto or Lao Tzu, then that would certainly make people sit up!

    The quote says: 'These religions are not the only true religions that have appeared in the world (true), but are the only ones still existing (false). And again, 'But the only ones existing are those mentioned above.' Again, wrong.

    What we have here is someone starts with nine as the ideal, and then comes up with eight fore-runners.
     
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  9. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    But surely if you count the Sabeans, you would have to count all the indigenous religions of the region? Babylonian, Canaanite, etc.? I don't think Sabeanism exists today as it was. There are references to Sabeans who one might call heterodox Judaism, and Sabeans who are heterodox Christians (referred to as St John Christians), but from what I can gather, 'traditional Sabeanism' is long gone?
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Hmmm.... How many adherents of those two today?

    I'd guess those doors of the temples don't get used all that often
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Lol crosspost
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Indigenous beliefs from all over...the subsaharan African continent, the Americas ...all discounted...
     
  13. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    It's worth considering the concept of sovereignty and how religion is redefined in the Baha'i Faith. :)
     
  14. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    I once watched a video documentary on a real voodoo church in New York City. It was not at all what I expected. It was fascinating.
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Which is? And his should we consider it?
     
  16. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    No sugarcoating needed, nor even wanted. Neither political correctness. Just plain, simple ol' facts will do. Opinions are fine, but mileage varies from individual to individual.

    I think I did not pay enough attention to the part that this declaration is a Baha'i belief. If so, then fair enough. That is what Baha'i believe. Doesn't make them any more right or wrong than any other religious group.
     
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  17. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Actually that was precisely my point, though admittedly I came at it rather obliquely. By 'deciding' that there are nine major religions, that, by definition, makes all other religions, whether 4200 or 42000, lesser religions. It's the old oneupmanship that we humans do so effectively. You will look up to me and mine and I get to look down on you and yours.

    Are there really 4,200 religions in the world? No? So what is the exact number then. 2,494.7? And who gets to make this decision anyway? It is really an opinion is it not? And opinions are not exact. Within each group there will be teachings, traditions, notions, prejudices, alignments, customs that will affect how many religions that one group will accept. No?

    There are some units by which we could measure the importance of a religion. Numbers of the faithful being the first that springs to mind. We know there are a whale lot more followers of Hinduism than there are of the Norse Gods (and yes there are still people who worship Norse Gods). Is quantity the yardstick to go by? I don't think so, but then that is my 'opinion'.

    In the end, promoting some religions over others is self defeating. Unless someone can come up with a sensible and reasonable rule by which such a decision can be made.
     
  18. 16Masail

    16Masail Bahá'i

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    It's my observation that some Bahá'is suck up to Native Americans. For example, they'll claim that the White Buffalo Calf Woman was a prophetess (see article in BahaiTeachings) when this notion conflicts with our teachings.

    So aside from the Qur'án, Bible, and the Bahá'i Writings, we cannot add names of people we THINK might be Lesser Prophets, let alone Greater Prophets.

    Furthermore, we have this passage from our Writings:

     
  19. 16Masail

    16Masail Bahá'i

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    In Islam, Zoroastrians (only considered by Shias), Jews, Christians, and Muslims are accounted among the People of the Book. That's 51% of the world population today who follows a religion of divine origin.

    In the Bahá'i Faith, with the above list of nine religions, that's 72% of the world's population today.
     
  20. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    I have an argument in mind, but I will consult with a few Baha'i friends about my answer first, and then I will answer your question. :)
     

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