Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by mystic, May 10, 2017.
It did for centuries.
Until Guttenburg & Luther
In the end, I'm still no wiser what you're trying to say, bro?
The Church says no adultery and sex is for procreation in marriage, for instance. Just one isolated example, ok? Because Christ said that. (Actually in most religions.) The church can't contradict Christ. God doesn't say everyone can be perfect, that people aren't weak and sexual. God knows and understands human sexuality. God forgives human weakness.
Christ forgave the adultress and challenged the first sinless one of her accusers to throw the first stone. But still, God's law is God's law. So someone doesn't like it, they start their own church? Make it a virtue?
People don't like what Jesus said, so they say he never spoke. But God doesn't change, for man. Imo
OK, ya gotta help me out here... Jesus spoke of adultery being the only application for divorce... But that the marriage contract is still live and that future sex is still adultery...
But to which passages are you referring?
By "brutal" I was referring to all mundane affairs [vs an exclusive spiritual life of prayer]
By Gutenberg [spelling corrected] I was referring to how "Knowledge was gotten by the grace of the Church & Priesthood clergy".
Johannes Gutenberg was a German ... introduced printing to Europe. Johannes Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg was a German blacksmith, goldsmith, printer, and publisher who introduced printing to Europe. The relatively unrestricted circulation of information—including revolutionary ideas—transcended borders, captured the masses in the Reformation and threatened the power of political and religious authorities; the sharp increase in literacy broke the monopoly of the literate elite on education and learning and bolstered the emerging middle class.
By Luther[spelling corrected] I was referring to Martin Luther:
The Reformation (from Latin reformatio, literally "restoration, renewal"), also referred to as the Protestant Reformation, was a schism from the Roman Catholic Church initiated by Martin Luther ---to reform the Roman Catholic Church.
Read Mark. No divorce. The other gospels allow adultery as cause for divorce. But it's accepted Mark's was the first synoptic gospel.
However, that's not the point and I'm not even taking a position on it. My position is that someone who doesn't like the scripture starts a church to suit own beliefs. Santeria/voodoo are extreme cases.
So Jesus did not.say not.to adultery or that.sex was only for.procreation... Other parts of.the bible.said that....but not Jesus.
That.... Was your statement that I questioned.
RJM, imo folks that "don't like the scriptures" are un-read in what the scriptures actually say.
It's easy for those un-read in what the scriptures say to harp on "one line out of context" and posture as if they where scholars ---in a scripture that they don't read. How many words are there in the old and new testiments?
In those times and those locales "tradition" was known by the inquisitive philosopers...basic constructs of spiritual life [vs mundane existencialism] were known. The ABC's of basic benchmarks for a spiritual life were known.
IE: Who invented the use of prayer beads?
Origins and etymology
The English word bead derives from the Old English noun bede which means a prayer. The oldest image of a string of beads in a religious context and resembling a string of prayer beads, is found on the fresco of the "Adorants" (or "Worshipers") at the Xeste 3 building of the prehistoric settlement of Akrotiri, Santorini (Thera,) Greece (Wall Paintings of Thera.) http://news.in.gr/files/1/2016/thira3.jpg dating from the 17th c. BC (c. 1613 BC.) The exact origins of prayer beads remain uncertain, but their earliest historical use probably traces to Hindu prayers in India.Buddhism probably borrowed the concept from Hinduism. The statue of a holy Hindu man with beads dates to the third century BC.
How many words are there in the old and new testaments?
How many words are there in the Bible?
The King James Authorized Bible has 783,137 words. How many words is that? If you can type at 60 words a minute, it would take you just over 217 and a half hours to retype the entire Bible. Can you imagine how long type-setting must have taken in the early days of printing?
As for the number of letter characters in the Bible, the total count is a staggering 3,116,480. Small wonder that in the days of movable type a lot of printing errors were made. In the notorious “Wicked Bible'” the word “not” was accidentally omitted from the commandment “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” Three little letters can make a huge difference in meaning.
While 783,137 words and 3,116,480 may seem to be a lot, there are others with even more. The Catholic Bible has an even higher word count because it has seven books more than the protestant Bible. Are you wondering why?
Martin Luther felt that seven of the books accepted as part of the Old Testament at the time were not quite up to scratch since the 90 AD Jewish Council of Jamnia had rejected them. Luther reasoned that the Old Testament was Jewish, and, therefore, shouldn’t include anything that Jews didn’t accept.
What’s in a name?
A lot of the names we give to children have biblical origins. How many people named “Mark” or “John” do you know? Now think of all the “Marys” you’ve met in your time. Of course, some names have fallen out of grace for good reasons. Being called “Judas” would be a bad start in life for any boy. “Mahershalalhashbaz” is the longest name in the Bible, and fortunately for us, it has fallen out of fashion.
Some more wordy facts for fun
There are, of course, only 10 commandments which Jesus neatly summed up into two really comprehensive ones, but if you count commands instead of commandments, you’d come up with a total of 6,468. Is anyone in the mood for checking this fact? There are even more predictions – 8,000 of them – and a sum total of 1,260 promises.
Questions are certainly asked. If you were to flip through your Bible counting question marks, you’d find 3,294, but now that I’ve told you how many there are, you can save yourself the trouble.
The Bible has one Central Character, who is referred to as “God” 4,094 times and as “Lord” 6,781 times.
Looking for the longest book in the Bible? Look no further than Psalms, a book that also includes the longest chapter in the Bible: Psalm 119, which has more words than any other chapter. For those who are looking for a lot of information in a very short book, 3 John is recommended reading; it has the lowest word count of all the books in the Bible.
So who wrote all this in the first place?
Christians believe that the Bible was inspired by God, but if you would like to find out how many human authors were involved, you will find that there is some debate as to who actually wrote what. In general, authorities believe that the Bible was written by 80 authors.
I'm fine with this
Wil, Jesus forbade divorce. I'm not taking a position. It's not the argument. The point is, someone like Henry 8 doesn't like it, so he founds his own church. I'm not arguing exact Bible quotes and words here ...
No its not.an argument...this is a discussion forum.... Jesus seems to approve I've divorce for adultery...
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Not in Mark's gospel. That's Matthew or Luke ...
Incidentally is that most primitive tribes prohibit divorce and adultery: it protects the tribe from contamination, etc.
A man may have as many wives as he can afford to support, however ...
Why is that.pertinent....the quotes from matt ams Luke don't apply?
Marks gospel was the bare bones original. The other two synoptic gospels came after.It's as if Matt had Marks gospel in front of him when he wrote, and Luke had both Mark and Matthew, later, as more accounts of Jesus' life were gathered. The Church accepts the expanded version, of Mat and Luke, generally, as far as I know, but I'm really not the expert?
John's gospel was not influenced by the synoptic gospels, is thought to be the only eye-witness account of Jesus, written in hindsight by 'The beloved disciple' when he was an old man. From what I know ...
Thomas suggests that Mark's gospel may be Peter's account from prison of Jesus, as told to the writer?
Papias (c 130AD) provides a baseline for Mark.
"The Presbyter said this also: 'Mark, having been the interpreter of Peter, wrote down carefully, though not in order, all that he remembered, both words and deeds of the Lord! For he had neither heard the Lord, nor followed him, but only at a later date, as I have already said, followed Peter. Peter arranged his instructions according to the needs (of his audience) and not as making (a continuous and exhaustive) arrangement of the Lord’s words. So Mark was not wrong to write down some things as he remembered them, for he took care to omit or falsify nothing which he had heard (from Peter)." (The Presbyter in this instance is Presbyter John, probably around 80-90AD.)
Papias is confirmed by the other early Christian writers: Clement of Alexandria (150-215 AD.), Origen (186-254), Tertullian (160-240) and others. The tradition states Mark assisted Peter in his preaching at Rome and that the community requested Mark write down what Peter was preaching. (Papias, 'Exegesis of the Lord’s Oracles', Justin, 'Dialogue with Trypho' and Irenaeus 'Against Heresies'.)
Internal evidence of the Gospel harmonizes with the tradition that places the Gospel in Rome. Mark uses Latin loan words (4,21; 5,9.15; 6,27; 6,37; 7,4; 12,14; 15,39.44; etc.) and adds Latin explanations (Mark 12,42; 15,16; etc.).
The question 'who was Mark' remains something for scholars to pore over. A common thesis is that Mark might well be the John Mark of Acts 12:12 and 15:37, a cousin of Barnabas. Like Barnabas he would have been a Levite. The family home may have been in Cyprus (Acts 4:36ff), and he would speak both Aramaic and Greek. If so, at some point the family must have moved to Jerusalem. it is there that Barnabas becomes a Christian, selling his property and donating the proceeds to the Apostles to distribute among the poor (Acts 4:36-37).
Of Mark we know less, but the thesis holds Mark became a secretary to Peter, who calls him 'my son' (1 Peter 5:13), which in the language of the time indicates that Peter instructed mark in the faith.
The family proved to be very active followers of Christ. Barnabas was a great help to Paul immediately after his vision of Christ on the way to Damascus (Acts 9:27). Mark’s mother Mary offered her house in Jerusalem as a meeting-place for the early Christian community. After his escape St. Peter goes straight to this house, knowing that he will find the others there (Acts 12:12-17).
At some point Mark became Peter’s assistant. In a letter Peter writes: "Your sister Church in Babylon (Rome), also chosen by God, sends you greetings. And so does my son Mark" (1 Peter 5:13).
Around 60AD Paul was taken to Rome under arrest. Mark and Paul are reunited and, having earlier fallen out, repair their friendship. Paul writes: "Aristarchus, who is in prison with me, sends you his greetings and so does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. You have already received instructions about him, to welcome him, if he comes your way" (Colossians 4:10). "Epaphras, who is in prison with me for the sake of Christ Jesus, sends you his greetings, and so do my fellow workers Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke" (Philemon 24).
According to Clement of Alexandria:
"This was the occasion of Mark’s Gospel. When Peter had publicly preached the word in Rome, and had taught the Gospel in the Spirit, his numerous hearers are supposed to have asked Mark to write down the things which Peter preached. For he had accompanied Peter for a long time and remembered his words. Mark is said to have agreed to their request, and to have given them the Gospel. When Peter learned of it he neither forbade it, nor encouraged it."
By the mid 60s, Peter was dead, killed under the persecution of Nero, and Paul was imprisoned for the second time. Mark was in Asia Minor, and Paul writes to Timothy (Bishop of Ephesus): "Only Luke is with me. Get Mark and bring him with you, for he can help me in the work" (2 Timothy 4:11).
Separate names with a comma.