psychedelics and religious experience

Discussion in 'Alternative' started by wil, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Mushrooms, Peyote, Ayahuasca and others have been used by shamans for IDK how long...

    Now DMT and LSD... for half a century...

    Just a conversation on chemical enlightenment of today and yesterday...
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    The spiritual/psychedelic thing was an inevitable product of a consumer culture, a means by which we can 'have it now' without all the bothersome effort necessary to achieve 'it' by normal means.

    To paraphrase Taylor, why spend years training when you can just alter your brain chemistry directly, by taking psychedelics?

    I don't know the balance between those who attained some insight, and those who suffered a complete breakdown. Peter Green, the genius guitarist of — forgive this old fart — the real Fleetwood Mac (by real I mean a proper blues band and yes, I admit it, I've got a copy of Rumours somewhere!). Sadly, our neighbour's kid dropped a tab, nothing happened so he dropped two more and went on to suffer a psychosis. I wish I'd had the chance to speak to him before the second tab. 'Wait ... just wait a little longer ...' (I nearly did the same thing my first time round, but luckily my mates, more experienced, talked me out of it.)

    Don't start me on the rant of how the hue-and-cry media has strangled any sensible discussion, debate and information on the recreational use of drugs. That my daughters were told the same kind of bull that I was as a teenager really annoyed me, it's criminal irresponsibility. That I had to brief a group of teenagers about to embark on a school trip to Amsterdam (?!) on the downside effects of cannabis, especially my girls who've inherited their mother's low blood sugar ...

    ... anyway.

    To paraphrase Taylor again: So, what the 60s seem to show was that regular LSD usage was as likely to generate psychological breakdown as spiritual awakening. And many, like Timothy Leary himself, who originally used LSD as a way of expanding consciousness soon used it purely hedonistically, as a way of escaping boredom and discord, after the ‘chemical enlightenment’ project failed.

    Tune in, turn on and drop out ... if ever there was the mantra of the antichrist, that was it.

    Taylor says:
    I agree. What I might suggest is a dialogue to discern the difference, if indeed there is one, between a higher state of consciousness/awakening experience and a spiritual/mystical state ...

    And here's the salient comment:
    This is where the psychedelics actually score. It's not about spiritual insight or experience, it's just about seeing a bigger picture, if you like. A residual thing. But as Taylor says, it's dissolutive, not constructive, and in that sense not true enlightenment ...

    Anyway ... I'm off to Glastonbury next week, so the week after that you might find guru Tom gracing these threads, or it might be gloomy Tom, or it might just be the usual me ...
     
  3. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    Psychedelics were a great temptation during my band days. Aside from our drummer though, the rest of us never partook and that cat was far from enlightened. He died from an overdose some years later.

    LOL... Got my copy of Rumours too old son. Only these days, it's stored on my MP3 player. I still remember the Grammy's that year. You'd see this big cloud of smoke hovering every time the camera panned their section. Oh man the colors... the colors...lol!o_O
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I remember in my late teens at college in the heyday of prog rock. Bands like King Crimson etc. I was a given that bands like Pink Floyd just had to be off their heads on acid to come up with what they did! Turns out they were all straight, except for Syd Barrett who was off his head, a liability and a casualty ... some of the saddest songs in the PF discography are penned about him (Comfortably Numb, for one). You probably know all this better than I.

    A doowhatsit? :D

    Keep promising myself a new turntable. Hands up everyone who ever had a Garrard SP25 deck! Mine was a MkIII.

    I've got a valve amp ipod dock, and quite fancy listening to old vinyl through that. Need new speakers, of course. And a decent cartridge. And gold plugs, etc. Then, of course, I'd have to upgrade the amp, then ... then ... then ...
     
  5. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    Ahhh... yes. Mine was a MK IV mounted in a 12 watt Hi-Fi with external 8-track.
     
  6. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Hmmm....hadn't considered this with any depth for some time now. Acid always scared the pie outta me, so all I had to go on were a couple of experiences around 1980.

    If allowed an opinion, I would guess a great deal has to do with motivation and intent behind the use. It always seemed to me those who flipped out were those who dabbled out of curiosity with no motivation other than to "get high."

    Yet Native Americans of the Southwest have been using Peyote ceremonially for countless generations...so another distinction in my mind is "natural" vs "artificial." You don't find Peyote, Peyote finds you...or so the old man told me. Peyote never found me so I had to settle for my experience with mushrooms, which was far more tolerable and "controllable" (by me) than the synthetic stuff.

    There are other, non-chemical means of approaching an altered state of consciousness. Sensory deprivation being one, although use of the psychomantium may be a variation on that theme being another. Various means for scrying have been used through the centuries as well, most notably by Nostradamus.
     
  7. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    Found something on YouTube you may appreciate- Gotta love that Gold Top Les Paul:

     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Back on topic, microdosing is making an appearance ...

    Good to see 'recreational drugs' are being looked at seriously, and mindfulness meditation gets another review in the journal, a positive one, too ...
     
  9. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    My concern would be mass paranoia. There is scholarship documenting the French revolution and the Salem witch hunts as being brought on by rye spoiled by ergot spores which produced a hallucinogenic "trip" not unlike LSD. One person having a bad trip is cause for concern, a mob having a bad trip can be "revolutionary," and not necessarily in a good way.
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I don't know what a bad trip is...
     

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