The Bible is pretty clear where homosexuality is concerned

[wil]

Care to dive in.

My argument is going to completely revolve around

A. What did Jesus say (this is what should effect Christian thoughts)

B. What does the OT say? About homosexuality and then let us compare it to other OT scripture and punishment to understand if we treat them all the same or pick and choose.

C. What does the Vatican say?

D. How do most synagogues/rabbis view this (we are speaking of Judaic writings)

 

[Aussie Thoughts]

Care to dive in.

Not really. Plenty of worms on the table already. No need to open a new can.

Scripture's on the subject, both old and new are well known and both sides of the argument well documented. Some interpret the Bible one way, some the other and so it is. All I can say is, if you're for homosexuality, respect the rights of those who feel differently and don't try to force their acceptance. Likewise for those against homosexuality and if you are against it, don't use that as an excuse to discriminate or inflict harm on others. That's not what Jesus taught.

 

[wil]

Yes, I firmly believe... Don't like homosexual marriages, don't have one.

Ain't like this is anything new.... I grew up as a kid watching Cary Grant, Rock Hudson, Dirk Bogarde, Randolph Scott, Liberace, Elton John, Laurence Olivier, Paul Lynde, Roddy McDowel, the Brady Bunch, Perry Mason, Ironsides, Montgomery Clift, Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwyck, Judy Holiday....and of.course the list is even lengthier in the past 40 years.... Some think that they are all guilty of a sin punishable by death seems pretty wild to me...

 

[Ahanu]

Care to dive in.

From my previous research about the issue, I understand the debate is about how the ancients understood homosexuality since they lacked our modern concept of it.

 

[Thomas]

I'm with Aussie ...

 

[Thomas]

Mind you ... it's a shame Bananabrain has gone, he had some very interesting views on the matter.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Mind you ... it's a shame Bananabrain has gone, he had some very interesting views on the matter.

care to paraphrase? I miss the guy.

 

[Thomas]

care to paraphrase? I miss the guy.

I can't remember his whole argument, but it was something along the line of the treatment of prisoners/slaves/conquered peoples ... simply put, don't bugger your captives.

 

[wil]

From my previous research about the issue, I understand the debate is about how the ancients understood homosexuality since they lacked our modern concept of it.

Our modern concept of it not being natural?



https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/opinions/two-spirits-one-heart-five-genders/

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/third-gender-gay-rights-equality/

 

[Ahanu]

Our modern concept of it not being natural?

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/opinions/two-spirits-one-heart-five-genders/

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/third-gender-gay-rights-equality/

Looks like an interesting read about some Native American views! I will take a look.

To be more specific, I was referring to cultures in which Jewish and Christian scriptures were written. You might find this blog series I read about it informative: “God and the Gay Christian” Discussion, Week 6 & Conclusion. Philo and Josephus, for example, according to this author's review, did not frame same-sex relationships the same way we do today.

 

[wil]

I shouldn't laugh....I shouldn't.

http://deadstate.org/guy-who-says-g...has-his-home-destroyed-in-a-natural-disaster/

 

[Thomas]

Care to dive in.

My argument is going to completely revolve around

A. What did Jesus say (this is what should effect Christian thoughts)

B. What does the OT say? About homosexuality and then let us compare it to other OT scripture and punishment to understand if we treat them all the same or pick and choose.

C. What does the Vatican say?

D. How do most synagogues/rabbis view this (we are speaking of Judaic writings)

OK ... let's hear your argument, based on the above?

 

[wil]

Without a reference ... Without a statement... I have nothing to agree with or refute.

I just provided where I intend to draw from in regards to statement...on the Bible being clear....

I mean, what did Jesus say about homosexuality?

 

[Thomas]

Oh, I see where you're going.

 

[Thomas]

Care to dive in.

Why not? I'll leave B and D for a Jewish commentary.

A: What did Jesus say (this is what should effect Christian thoughts)
C: What does the Vatican say?

My response would be to A: He said nothing, so the point is moot.

B: "... I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

I can't remember his whole argument, but it was something along the line of the treatment of prisoners/slaves/conquered peoples ... simply put, don't bugger your captives.

I just read about a pastor who promotes Church-LGBT relations and she had the Biblical perspective you described here. I went here to ask you about it and saw your post. I remember not really grokking it the first time but here we are. Have you encountered that view from others than BB? I would think that it would be a very popular way of seeing things in current times but these are the only two times I have heard of it. I'm guessing there isn't much going for or against (other than the fact that Adam and Steve rimes)?

 

[Thomas]

Have you encountered that view from others than BB?

No, sadly not.

D'you know, it turned out that BB and I were actually working in the same building at one point? How weird is that? He contacted me after he'd tired of IO, and was trying to start something a bit more faith-discussion-based. I had other things going on and never pursued the contact. Pity...

I would think that it would be a very popular way of seeing things in current times but these are the only two times I have heard of it. I'm guessing there isn't much going for or against (other than the fact that Adam and Steve rimes)?

The trouble is you need to know what you're talking about, which BB did.

 

[Thomas]

My argument is going to completely revolve around
A. What did Jesus say (this is what should effect Christian thoughts)
B. What does the OT say? About homosexuality and then let us compare it to other OT scripture and punishment to understand if we treat them all the same or pick and choose.
C. What does the Vatican say?
D. How do most synagogues/rabbis view this (we are speaking of Judaic writings)

Care to share your argument?

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

D'you know, it turned out that BB and I were actually working in the same building at one point? How weird is that? He contacted me after he'd tired of IO, and was trying to start something a bit more faith-discussion-based. I had other things going on and never pursued the contact. Pity...

It's too late now?

The trouble is you need to know what you're talking about, which BB did.

You mean to the arguments for or against? I know he was well versed in Jewish Theology so I'm guessing he was a bit of a history buff as well.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Decided to look around a bit. I get so happy when I see references :')

i don't know if you would consider r. steve greenberg as part of renewal, but as far as i'm aware he would consider himself mod-orthodox; his position is that the Torah (as opposed to "jewish texts" per se) is against sexual violence rather than homosexuality and that the main sources have been systematically misinterpreted. it's a different strategy but still a halakhically workable one.
[...]
r. elyashiv's comment to r. greenberg on homosexuality (Steven Greenberg (rabbi) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

it's like the argument i make about homosexuality. whether it's kosher or not, we don't ask people if they've got a kosher kitchen before we call them up, so on what basis would we discriminate against someone on the basis of their sexual orientation?