Free will.

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Bhagwan, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. Bhagwan

    Bhagwan Member

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    Religion is parental.Run by power crased control freeks.
    Jesus message was i am OK,you are OK(Unconditional love)
    Religion says you are not OK,but you can be if you do as we say.The original message has been corrupted through out history,to fit the game patterns of every culture to which it has been introduced.Jews have been persecuted,racial bigotry has been established as moral and legal,repeated religious wars have been fought,witches have been burned,and heretics have been murdered.
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    That's a problem with psychopathy, not religion per se, it's endemic to any institution ...

    Er, not quite. The love of God is definitely conditional. If it was unconditional, the message would be 'carry on as you are' ... which it isn't.

    No religion says that.

    Well, quite.

    Well I would suggest it's not been lost.

    But if it has been corrupted as you say, then how can you have any idea what the original message was, and how do you know there was an original message that was corrupted?
     
  3. Bhagwan

    Bhagwan Member

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    Religion is dominated by the parent /child, we the church are OK you the worshippers (child)are not ok
    the adult is i am ok you are ok.JESUS.
    the major religions have a non-dual message,everthing is one,unconditional love.
    The seperate self(ego) thinks it needs to get something first material then when that doesnt work spiritual,but what it realy wants and fears is its own destruction(Alan watts a conversation with myself on YOU TUBE.)
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Same answer as above. Some interpret religion that way, some receive it that way, some regard it that way, but that's not really the way of it.

    On the other hand, religions in their scriptures and traditions 'parent' their adherents, and should lead them in the paths of wisdom.

    "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child. We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known" (1 Corinthians 13:11-12) This can be read as an analogy of spiritual growth. We all start as children.

    Doesn't say that. Says "I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life" (John 8:12) He came to preach the light (cf Mark 1:38) into the darkness.

    The love is offered unconditionally, to be accepted, unconditionally. Therein lies the rub.

    Well I disagree with Watts, then. Or rather, I don't see it solely in such nihilistic terms.

    Fear feeds on itself. It's not the path to enlightenment. If its primary motive is fear, it's lost before it's even begun.
     
  5. OnePerson'sOpinion

    OnePerson'sOpinion Close my account.

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  6. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    So we can make the weather as per our freewill?
    So we can make the cost of rent & Taxes go lower?

    But don't you follow the commands of your bowels & breathing in the middle of the night?

    Free will is extremely limited to "desired desires"
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    lol...duh...

    has anyone ever thought of it otherwise?
     
  8. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    Free Will in the Bible simply means the choice between good and evil is ours. Nothing to do with routine decision making nor autonomous response to stimulus.
     
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  9. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

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    I teenager plays the music really loud ---exercising free will.
    I speed freak drives faster than the posted speed limit ---exercising free will.
    The thief steels ---exercising free will.
    The male impregnates ---exercising free will.

    Limited to desired "choices" ---exercising manipulation of machines.

    The free is exercised using elements that are beyond their purview:
    He's not a musician; He's not a car mechanic;
    He's not a motorway repairman; He's not a provider;
    He's not a father ---he's a pleasure seeker.

    All things are done by nature and we think we are the doers.

    It's like saying while I rode the roller-coaster, I exercise my free will.

    All we do is seek to pleasure our senses. So much must be prepared and done and designed and traveled ---to pleasure our senses.

    Freewill is poetic notion. A rich man can pleasure his senses. The bum can pleasure his senses. Each seeking different stratum of pleasure.

    Free will is extremely limited to "seeking pleasure"
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Again....nobody I know expects free will to go beyond that, or mean anything more than that.

    Some wish to change the past and remember the future...but I have not met those that can.
     

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