Millenials leaving churches

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by wil, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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  2. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Worldwide the growing number of nones is a short-term trend. According to PRC, the long-term trend indicates their number will decrease, and the main reason is because of where geographical concentrations of nones exist:


    Your source links to a nice National Geographic article too. Kinda surprised by the 2015 map there. The second largest religion in Yemen and Oman is Hinduism? Buddhists only get South Korea? Baha'is come in second in Afghanistan and Belize? And nearly the entire continents of both North America and Europe are shaded with nones? Perhaps a breakdown by region in America would better reflect where most people identify as nones. With the popularity of yoga and Buddhist meditation practices, I am surprised no areas in the West are shaded Buddhist or Hindu. Yes, I am aware people from different religions can take up these practices and incorporate them in their own. Just thought the practices themselves would garner more interest in the actual religions.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    You've made an interesting point...yoga, meditation...there are practices from religions.. Which people utilize outside of the belief system.

    Forgiveness, and even prayer could be considered among them!
     
  4. Kristy178

    Kristy178 New Member

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    This isn't a surprise. The bible predicts that many will fall away and that only some will endure to the end.
     
  5. Arif Ghamiq

    Arif Ghamiq Active Member

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    Such predictions exist within Islam as well.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I think the practices are being taken on by large numbers because of the fact that the perceived value is apparent, but most not seeing it as a different religious practice.

    I think we are seeing more people.walk from religion because we can.

    More and more people are not compelled to go, not shunned if they leave...

    Not going to church, agnosticism, atheism, the bones are accepted.

    In the commonwealth of Virginia, prior to the declaration of independence monthly attendance was compulsory...you didn't happen to.go to church once.a.month when you brought your family into town to.shop...you shopped once a month when you brought your family into church...

    (Suddenly contemplates the connection of shopping and religion this season)
     
  7. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Fall away from what?
     
  8. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    But in terms of population Islam will soon overtake Christianity. That bodes well for Islam, no?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I tend to think the popularity of such disciplines is, as you say, outside of a belief system – it's primarily keep fit, well-being, etc. They are not pursued as an 'independent religious pursuit' as it were.

    New Scientist and others have raised issues with the total acceptance of the practice of 'mindfulness meditation' as 'unquestionably a good thing' — there is now significant evidence of negative psychosis effects in a number of cases — received wrongly, and without the religious contextual containment, meditation can make those with a negative self-view become actually more negative...
     
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Yup
     
  11. Arif Ghamiq

    Arif Ghamiq Active Member

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    Not necessarily - it is indicated by Prophet Muhammad (SAW) that the Ummah (Community/Nation) will become hypocritical & the Leaders corrupt:

    The Holy Prophet (SAW) said:

    "There will come a time for my Ummah (Nation/Community) when their rulers will be cruel, their Scholars will be greedy and have little piety, their worshippers (will act) hypocritically, their merchants will commit usury and conceal the defects of their buyings and sellings and their women will be busy with the ornaments of the world. Hence, at this time, the most vicious of them will dominate over them, and their good doers will invocate but they will not be answered."

    (Bihar-ul-Anwar)
     
  12. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    So you advise against meditation in schools, for example? I thought studies said meditation in schools ("without the religious contextual containment") is going well for children and their emotional development . . .

    *disagrees to get convo rolling*
    ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  13. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Ah, yes, religion likened and reduced to a consumer product. Cyber Monday deals for religion online. I'll give you a 50 percent discount on mindfulness. o_O
     
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  14. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Tests have proven that the benefits of meditation can be attained by resting, reading poetry, listening to appropriate music (not thrash-metal), looking at a pleasant scenic view. There's nothing particularly magic about meditation, and it really depends on the end you have in view.

    If you're using it as a technique to aid concentration, then a mindfulness, breath-counting practice is the one. If you're using it for increased empathy, general well-being, then loving-kindness meditation ... they effect different parts of the brain.

    Meditation not undertaken in the context of a spiritual tradition is, quite simply, not a spiritual practice. Or rather, it is no more nor less effective than poetry, music, taking time out, whatever.

    As for the downside, a report in New Scientist showed:
    "... meditation and mindfulness are promoted as ways of quieting the mind, alleviating pain and anxiety, and even transforming you into a happier and more compassionate person ... But happiness and de-stressing were not what meditation(s) ... were originally developed for. The purpose of meditation was much more radical: to challenge and rupture the idea of who you are, shaking one’s sense of self to the core so you realise there is “nothing there” (Buddhism) or no real differentiation between you and the rest of the universe (Hinduism). So perhaps it is not so surprising that these practices have downsides.

    ... but for others the outcome will be emotional distress, hallucinations or perhaps even ending up in a psychiatric ward. David Shapiro of the University of California, Irvine, found that 7 per cent of people on meditation retreats experienced profoundly adverse effects, including panic and depression. Experience appears to make no difference – experts and naive meditators are equally likely to be affected.

    And not everyone agrees about the therapeutic merits of meditation. Albert Ellis, one of the founders of cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT), spoke critically of the use of meditation in therapy and argued that it should be used only as a “thought-distracting” or “relaxing” technique. He explained that, like tranquillisers, “it may have both good and bad effects – especially, the harmful result of encouraging people to look away from some of their central problems, and to refrain from disputing their disturbance-creating beliefs”.

    Another key figure in the development of CBT, Arnold Lazarus, argued that meditation was not for everyone and reported that some of his patients had serious disturbances after practising it." (New Scientist, May 2015)
     
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  15. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
  16. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps no religion is better then. Let's join the ranks of the nones!
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    The hypocritical and or power hungry and or those using religion for.personal gain.while.purporting otherwise are thriving in all religions...and while.they successfully gather followers they also increaase the nones.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2018
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Agree with the statement disagree with conclusion

    Reading, enjoying music and scenic views....are just also magical!

    Or just naturally beneficial depending on perspectives
     
  19. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    That's what Feng Shui has been saying for centuries with its emphasis on how the environment (e.g., the music a listener chooses to immerse herself in) can produce positive or negative chi. I can see how meditation can be similar to listening to appropriate music or sounds.

     
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  20. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Yep.

    It's what we had and we've forgotten ...

    'Celtic Spirituality' (or is it Gaelic?) is very much seated in the natural world.
     

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