Sexality

Discussion in 'Health' started by apexcone, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Didn't make sense that I gave you any grief about it. My local Hindu temple has a picture of Jesus in it, they value him as a guru. My preacher quotes occasionally from the Gita, Yogananda, and Star Trek.
     
  2. Cino

    Cino Big Love

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    You are right about St Paul! I conflated the two!

    Jesus' received stance on divorce also leaves a lot of wiggle room for idealization of unhappy, unhealthy relationship patterns.
     
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  3. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    All the same, it's what he said.
     
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    This is the main reason the Catholic Church cannot condone divorce. Interpretations of Christ's words, even by St Paul, are open to wiggle-room. But the words of Christ are not. The church cannot teach anything directly in conflict with the words of Christ himself.
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    In the states I've known people that had annulments after 4 years of marriage...to avoid the issue and stay in church.
     
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  6. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    Yes. That's the way it is done. Reasons may be found to why the marriage was not legitimate -- it may be because one or other partners did not fully understand the full implication of the vows they were making, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    Also @wil there's no question about not being allowed to attend church. There are no bouncers at the door. It means that because the church is unable to absolve you (until death you do part) you should be conscience bound not to take communion. But there's no priest who would actually refuse it, and no-one will ever look at you funny ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I recall Cardinal Ratzinger pointing out that the bishops of New York grant annulments at something like ten times the national average rate ...
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, as I've said before, I would greatly restrict the availability of a Sacramental Marriage, that is, marriage vows that are non-negotiable.

    +++

    A proper (English) wedding

    It's not commonly known that 'a white wedding' is hardly traditional. It emerged in Victorian times, and the point was to show that the lady in question was rich enough to have a dress made for a one-time use. The 'symbol of virginity' thing was a cover-up. Really, it was to flaunt your wealth before others.

    Before the Victorian era, brides simply wore their best gown, which was unlikely to be white and was expected to do many years' service.

    When the state started taxing marriage in the 1690s, a vicar carried out a survey of his parishioners. Clergymen who failed to ensure that their parishioners were officially married were penalised. He discovered that half of them had not been married in church, but in their home, by a travelling clergyman, or simply made vows to each other.

    Those unencumbered by property preferred to avoid the tax and spend their money on a celebration. Such "common law unions" had no basis in law and did not carry property rights.

    In the wake of the First World War, the number of 'common law wives' applying for their partner's pay and pension brought the matter into light.

    Originally, marriage was at the church porch. Only the local dignitaries warranted the altar. Such marriages were then entered in the diocese records and thereby forestalled later disputes over property and inheritance. The marriages were public, and publicly celebrated, to ensure the maximum number of witnesses.

    Clandestine or Common Law marriage was illicit, but still valid in the eyes of the Church.

    But such marriages led to all sorts of abuses – kidnapping, drugging, forced marriage and rape by fortune hunters; or under-age, same-sex, incestuous or bigamous unions. Bigamy was common. It was all too easy to enter a CL marriage, gamble your wife's fortune away, leave her destitute, and walk away to find another victim.

    The same casual attitude applied to sexual morality. Upper-class marriages involved property and meant that an unmarried girl's chastity had to be guarded at all costs. But chastity mattered less to others. From the sixteenth to the nineteenth century, when Victorian notions began to hold sway, a surprisingly high proportion of English brides were pregnant on their wedding day. Pre-marital sex was a sort of fertility test and pregnancy did not so much precipitate as anticipate the wedding.

    In the 1950s, a Royal Commission identified as the single most important factor in marital breakdown the idealisation of the individual pursuit of sexual gratification and personal pleasure at the expense of a sense of reciprocal obligations and duties towards spouses, children and society as a whole.

    The idea of marriage being based on solely on romantic love/lust is quite modern. The norm was more practical and pragmatic foundations.

    +++

    My solution:

    People today want 'a white wedding' for the same reason as the Victorians. To show off. So dispense with all that as anything to do with tradition, purity, virginity, whatever ...

    Marriage in the eyes of the Church will be two-tier (although the same in the eyes of the law).

    'Common' marriage will be blessed by a priest. A union between two people which all hope will last but, if it doesn't, then hey-ho, they gave it their best shot. Annulment/divorce is quite simple, and probably the post-nup agreement will be the most complex.

    'Sacramental marriage' is something else altogether. It's non-negotiable, and not easy to attain.
     
  10. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    My wife was quite puzzled that 'White' should be the symbol of purity here as in her culture it's an expression of mourning. Common practice is for widows to wear only white for at least a year after their husband's passing. In Hinduism, at least in my wife's tradition, brides are dressed in 'Red' as a symbol of virginity. Makes sense if you think about it.

    One of my brother-in-law's had a western style 3-tier cake at his reception, complete with bride & groom wedding topper. I can still remember the ladies rushing to paint over the bride figure's white gown with red fingernail polish before anyone saw it. :D
     
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