Biocentrism

Discussion in 'Science and the Universe' started by wil, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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  2. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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  3. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand, what Lanza seems to be hinting at is a blind fumbling towards the Logos of God?

    I'm reminded of St Paul when he visited Athens, to find "... all the Athenians, and strangers that were there, employed themselves in nothing else, but either in telling or in hearing some new thing" (Acts 17:21)

    To sum uP, "What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you" (17:23)
     
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  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I hadn't, now did, the author has the accolades, h=71, top 100 scholars, top 50 thinkers, pals with nobelers, stem cell research, 1st human clone team, what turned you away? Depaak?
     
  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    If it's in my head, then when I die the universe will cease to exist, for me. There's no-one else, everything will cease to exist. My consciousness is generated by my brain. Therefore when I die, that's it, lights out on the universe Because if I'm not there to perceive it ...

    *not
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm not here to detract from his work or reputation, but he wouldn't be the first who's got caught up in his own ego!

    An admittedly cursory search into biocentrism threw up a lot of Robert Lanza-owned or associated links, so I take their breatheless praise with a pinch of salt.

    Looking for peer review, and I found opinions are a bit more divided.

    But does not this look to you like the superstitions of the ancients, that looking at phenomena they cannot explain, they posit some unseen cause?

    It seems to me biocentrism is promotion the idea of a God, but seeks desperately to avoid using that term?

    Or, as you've said elsewhere, science is claiming to have 'discovered' that which religion has been talking about for millennia ... ?
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    The very definition of religious texts.
    With reason, the implications, baggage and previously conceived notions that come with that term are the reasons I tried to avoid it
    Exactly, and I have no clue if I believe if this gets is close to that answer as I have not read yet, but I have faith that this will come to fruition before the second coming.

    I do agree that ego thing is always a lurking issue
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    LOL, your definition, but yes, that's how it reads to me, whoo-hoo science and contemporary superstition.
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I'm not averse to biocentrism or emergence, but I think we have to be careful about what assumptions we make, especially when it seems to suggest the universe exists, and is currently defined by, us.

    My noddle-headed understanding of Quantum Physics, for example, is the universe exists in an indeterminate state, and coalesces together into 'reality' in the eyes of the beholder ... so did the universe 'exist' before it was beheld? (Beholded? be-whatever?), as there seems to be a strong argument that the universe has been there longer than us.

    That's the kind of problem I have ... and if anyone says 'yes, that is the case' then we have a modern pseudo-scientific take on the age of the universe that's no different really from the literal biblicist working out the age of the world by the generations from Adam.

    That and the argument of Intelligent Design, which emergence/biocentrism seems to infer ... loads of questions ...
     
  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    A belief in (knowledge of) 'spirit' means an acceptance that *disembodied intelligence exists -- that mind exists independent of the appearance (to us natural creatures) of a concrete form/body. It implies a belief in life-after-death.

    The reality which natural creatures are able to perceive depends on natural senses. A dog can smell water 100 yards away. What is a cat really seeing when it looks at me? Does it see a bundle of light fibres? An eagle can see the flick of a mouse tail from 500 yards up in the air.

    We are able to design instruments to measure x-ray radiation, electron microscopes, magnificent space telescopes and wonderful machines to detect tiny sub-nuclear particles, and gravity waves, the equivalent of finding an eyelash in an oil tanker. But they are still extensions of our 'natural' (animal) perception?

    *Disembodied from any 'normal' material form that our natural senses and instruments can detect or measure
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I suppose when we use terms like 'disembodied intelligence' we should be mindful we are using an analogy?

    The common idea of intelligence is framed within the totality of the human faculty, so when we speak of a spiritual being, we run up against a certain logic which regards the common terms within a physical context and thus cannot accept the idea.

    For those with 'a sense of the spirit', the terms 'mind', 'intelligence', 'intellect', etc., present no problem. They are adequate terms to refer to that which we have a sense of, even if now we see 'as through a glass, and darkly'.

    Yes, the common stock of all the Traditions.

    That's what biocentrism seems to hint at — an Architect. Emergence, I'm not so sure, but in some views of it, again, an Architect.

    Well things imply all sorts of things. It doesn't necessarily imply that to me.

    Aquinas said, "There is nothing in the mind that was not first in the senses." I think the Greeks said it before him ...

    Well I've said here before I believe 'mystical' experience, especially that of the ecstatic type, can result in the inability of the sensory cortex to comprehend and process an influx of something 'from above' as it were ... even the 'experience of bliss' can be emotionally overwhelming, and that's not necessarily a spiritual event.

    Ezekiel used to go into trances. A number of ecstatic mystics were thought to be epileptic, and therefore their experience was put down to epilepsy, but supposing it's an authentic spiritual experience that overwhelms the faculties and triggers an epileptic fit?

    On the other hand, something quite mundane can be equally as effective. Bishop Kalistos Ware of the Orthodox tradition was converted when he heard a choir singing; Cardinal Dulles when he saw a rose through a rain-stained window ... the Anonymous Author of Meditations on the Tarot had an epiphany when he was looking through the stained glass windows at Chatres Cathedral.

    Someone I know changed someone's life simply by opening a car door for them.

    The architecture of a church, or any sacred space, is quote often precise, and conducive to contemplation. But if you haven't got it, you won't get it, won't feel it, and the whole things a waste of effort. I love the complex and the simple in equal measure. I love the cloister of a cathedral, I love the idea that the Moslem can draw a line in the sand and the space beyond it is immediately consecrated, I delight in the idea that a famous Zen temple in Japan is right next to a power station. I knew a Brit who visited and listened to those visitors who complained about the background noise. The Abbot gave them a gentle telling off for wanting waterfalls, etc. If you can do zazen, you can do it on a traffic island in the middle of the freeway. If you need trees and water and natural beauty, you're a bit of a hothouse flower.
     
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  12. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    As for biocentrism, isn't it like someone looking at the cosmos and thinking, 'This is all for me!' ?
     
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  13. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    Ok. But what I'm saying is that materialism rejects the idea that 'mind' can exist independent of any physical form that our senses and scientific devices can detect.

    The idea that mind needs to be anchored within a physical form -- even the 'mind' of a tree -- means that there can be no 'mind' outside of nature.

    The idea that consciousness is a product of brain activity is an example.

    Biocentrism seems to place life at the centre and as the goal of the universe, hence 'fine tuning'. But science swats away that idea.

    Science says that life originated and evolved because the conditions were/are suitable. Not the other way around.

    *edited
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet Deus Pascus Corvus

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    Yes. Exactly. It was what motivated Mao tse Tung and Alexander the Great and others.

    The thing about quantum physics is that multiple states coexist? And as you say, the observer influences the outcome. There's no simple one-way process? Imo
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    To Revel in, roll in, share in, giveaway.
    And Donald Trump, but you got to add ego and greed to the mix
     
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  16. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Our, in our case, to ••••-up entirely ... :D
     
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