It just is vs its all good

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by wil, Jun 11, 2019 at 12:39 PM.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    In another thread this discussion started but it devolved quickly (as probably this one will) into horrific what if scenarios, which to mW, simply make any sane discussion on any topic futile.

    But it was raining yesterday, all day, sometimes heavy, sometimes a steady drizzle.

    This is some of the reality I like to consider. One person prays for a nice day, because they want to go to the beach, or another because they need to sail across the bay, another prays for the rain because their crops need watering, or because they want to go river riding tomorrow.

    Is G!d involved in all of this? Micromanaging the weather? Choosing whose prayers to answer and whose to deny? Or as some of our evangelists believe flooding the Mississippi, drowning farms, calves, people to get at some homosexuals and sinners somewhere?

    Similar to my health problems..."how can you not believe in G!d when you were just saved repeatedly from death?". I contemplate why would you think G!d would chose to save this agnostic that you disagree with so often?

    So when it rains incessantly and floods, idk how it works but believe it is all for the good, yes it flooded the refinery and spread oil everywhere, it flooded fertilizer storage and for fields and will go downstream to create the largest deadzone we've seen in the gulf in our lifetime, just years after the BP oil rig disaster...it is all good, or just is, depending on which way you choose to think, depending on how much you wish to have it effect your present psyche and future worries.

    I listen to the steady rain and contemplate not the reality but the allegory, or the metaphor, or the parable. I think about the water cycle, where did it all come from how many miles away was it evaporated into the clouds? And how many cycles have those molecules made it through from how many parts of the globe, some to have dropped before it got here, some dropping now outside my window, some raining later as the cloud continues...is there any judgement by the cloud or by the water as to where the rain may fall? As to who gets the day at the beach and who gets their crops watered and who gets flooded? Is your G!d involved in any of that.

    It cause me to think of this site and my decades on this planet, reading posts, reading books, listening to Butch, or Parahamansa Yogananda, or Jesus and the bible...how like water evaporating from the oceans we are clouds distilling words and thoughts and holding it for a while and as the winds of life blow we drop the contemplation in our travels and those with ears may here, for some it nourishes their soil, for others it floods and others put their fingers in their ears and wish for the sun and beach.

    This ddeluge has a couple more background thoughts I'll add, and you can't blame my strokes for my ramblings, this is the way my brain has always worked.
     
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  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "May be," the farmer replied.

    The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "May be," replied the old man.

    The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "May be," answered the farmer.

    The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "May be," said the farmer.


    [​IMG]
    People's reactions to this story:

    "It's comforting to know that good can come from bad circumstances, but not so nice to face the fact that bad can come from good times. Yet, is there good and bad at all?"

    "I guess there is no 'good' or 'bad.' Everything that happens to us is a mixture of good and bad. You have to just take things as they are."

    "Everything happens for a reason, and worrying about what has or will happen has no effect. So don't worry, be happy!"

    "Never judge a situation - wait for the outcome."

    "You can't fight fate!"

    "God controls our lives. We may not understand his purpose, so just accept what happens."

    "Nothing - I mean NOTHING occurs by accident!"

    "Don't count your chickens before they hatch!"

    "I think the farmer didn't want to jinx himself by agreeing with his neighbors."

    "If you try to predict the future, you may be wasting your time. I wonder, then, how worthwhile is it to plan for the future?"

    "This farmer apparently doesn't believe in free will. When he always replies 'maybe' he must feel that no matter what he says or does it will not make a difference in the path his life takes."

    "I think there's a fine line between optimism and pessimism, the farmer is standing on it."

    "We never know what will happen in life. Man is so narrow-minded and naive, yet he claims to know it all. No one knows where fate will bring us, but people who have faith in God will have everything set right."

    "Although the story may provide relief to people who believe that a superior being is looking out for us, it in effect tells us to accept our situation without trying to change it. I'm not sure I agree with that."

    "Que sera, sera. Life is a mystery. Don't take it for granted. Accept it, and try to enjoy the ride."

    "I wish I could be as relaxed and peaceful as this farmer. My mother always told me that I shouldn't worry about things that I can't change."

    "This farmer has mastered the art of letting go and letting life take its course. But he also seems to be a bit unfeeling. I don't think that has to be sacrificed for serenity."

    "I don't think this farmer realized how lucky he was that his son didn't have to go off to war. A broken leg is always better than getting killed!"

    "This farmer sure is a man of few words!"

    "If you take life just as it comes, one day at time, eventually you will be able to see the Big Purpose to it all."
     
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  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Tis The Set Of The Sail
    by Ella Wheeler Wilcox
    But to every mind there openeth,
    A way, and way, and away,
    A high soul climbs the highway,
    And the low soul gropes the low,
    And in between on the misty flats,
    The rest drift to and fro.

    But to every man there openeth,
    A high way and a low,
    And every mind decideth,
    The way his soul shall go.

    One ship sails East,
    And another West,
    By the self-same winds that blow,
    'Tis the set of the sails
    And not the gales,
    That tells the way we go.

    Like the winds of the sea
    Are the waves of time,
    As we journey along through life,
    'Tis the set of the soul,
    That determines the goal,
    And not the calm or the strife.



    Contemplating how you set your sail....
     
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  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Ah, bless you, wil. I somehow don't think God is too worried about the details of religion. God knows the heart?

    You seem to be having the same sort of lousy summer weather there in Washington that we are having here in the UK so far: heater still burning gas, lol.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 12:03 PM
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  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    What he said...try to imagine, thx Rabbi!

    [​IMG]
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    There is a chill in the morning and sticky afternoons, but your note made me decide to go enjoy camping in the rain me thinks (I was getting wet feet lol)
     
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  7. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Well I tried to make an explicit point to avoid that, but that's straight to where you headed.

    As ever, the question remains: if it's all good, then how, and why, does one determine stuff as bad?
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Sorto lose the battle win the war... Gotta break eggs to make an omelette...bad in then moment good in the long run...

    I've got more questions than answers...just as a juggler I drop more balls than anyone. (Other than better jugglers)
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Constant rain of varying degrees, wind and never a glimpse of the sun -- last four days. The Eskimos have 20 words for different kinds of snow, the English have 20 different kinds of rain, lol.
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    What do you call that must that falls so slow your front gets wet as you walk into it, but you'd be just feel humid if you stood still?

    Hawaiians have a bunch if various terms for types of lava flows...we Americans have 3000 varieties of Christians, lol
     
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  12. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    :p

    Thick/heavy Scotch mist.
    But without the humidity.
    There's no warm rain or wind in Britain.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 8:41 PM
  13. Cino

    Cino Big Love

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    I think it's the absolutes that make this such a thorny issue. Absolutes are too simplistic an assumption for complex situations involving many points of view.

    I don't think it's all good. I don't think anyone is all good. I think Ezra Pound wrote some really good poetry. I also think he had really bad political views, as bad as they can get.

    I don't think it's all utilitarian, for the good. Sometimes you break an egg and don't make omelettes. Sometimes you make omelettes from chickpea flower.

    Sometimes we can do things to increase the good in the world, and decrease the bad - by our standards, obviously. (Standards give direction and orientation. They have no absolute dimension.) That's what counts, to me. We can encourage others to do the same. We can encourage God to do the same. Forcing them to do what we say and do good, would be bad... Beyond that, very little is under anyone's control. Hydrogen fuses to helium in the sun until it rund out. That's the upper limit on anything we can consider absolute as humanity. It's not even clear if that's good or bad - commonplace as it is on a cosmic scale, we can't even wrap our minds around that. And yet we want to play at absolutes.

    See? I can ramble as well.
     
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  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Lion thinks zebra belongs on a plate
    Zebra thinks lion belongs in a cage
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    And for thousands of years animals coexisted... Until man that is. Of all things on earth the hardest to find value in is man.
     
  16. Cino

    Cino Big Love

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    We human beings have a lot of potential, both to do good and terrible things. I think that potential is a wonderful thing - think of all the possibilities!
     
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  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    While I dream of the possibilities, the reality is much different.
     
  18. Cino

    Cino Big Love

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    A case of commiseration masquerading as compassion?
     
  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Live or die. Eat or be eaten. It helps focus the mind ...
     
  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    https://biblehub.com/kjv/jeremiah/6.ht
    Jeremiah 6:16
    Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.
     

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