Faith and Belief

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by CobblersApprentice, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. No.One

    No.One New Member

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    Let me enlighten...my spiritual practice, Like mentioned in earlier post when first started on this forum, it is from a language I use for findings.. my answers, or questions.
    An understanding is through your efforts in your faith...but to know..ones own effort might not need of it..therefore it may lie for the one.

    To know be the impossible for us to have..because we do not have the time to do everything for us to know everything(Time is enemy)..but to understand is from your being in when finally doing it..from it will confirm what you thought(known) be now by your doings(understanding) of giving more insight for ‘correction’ of ones...’ifs’.

    There is a Problem having To Know ‘things’. Not only does it give one to know of..but at the same time it creates one of not knowing(The unknown world), for be what made one ‘knew’ was made by ones created box of ‘known’ and for everything that knows by it..that has kept ones mind to restrict itself...by be known from and to be unknown for, and that IMO...be how the ‘IF’s’ is/are from creating its self.

    To know is the ‘Impossible’, but to Understand is...
    By ONLY ones..‘(Im)Possible ‘ from being in.

    Ones effort, is by for ones earnest in being.

    A L[if]e indeed might be of ones G[if]t, that is ‘IF’ you see it..

    IMO..
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  2. Arif Ghamiq

    Arif Ghamiq Active Member

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    Allah knows best is - for me and every Muslim I've known - a way of saying:

    "everything I just said might be dead ass wrong, so seek and trust in The All-Knowing".

    And it acknowledges that, while I may be correct in what I'm saying - there is still more to know about it, could be put in a better way & so forth - and only Allah knows all and is never incorrect.

    Even still again

    Allah knows best !!!
     
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  3. No.One

    No.One New Member

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    Yes indeed..and I too believe ‘Allah’ is from ‘The Understanding’. And from the understanding is for ones effort(for knowing)..therefore ones effort is ones earnest(To understand) of the...’Work’(Sabbath).
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  4. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Sounds a bit like the proverbial desert of roses to me...

    What's your take on the Pure Land? If nirvana and samsara are the same, where does that leave the infinite pond blooming with enlightened beings? Are we all already enlightened, then? Or is that some other, better place?
     
  5. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

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    Hi Cino, good questions.

    Historically, the Pure Land way (aka Shin Buddhism, aka Jodo Shin shu) asserted that in this present world ( Japanese = the age of mappo ) it was not possible to gain enlightenment, and the Pure Land was the destination at death of those who trusted in the Vow of Amida. This Land would be more suitable for practice and enlightenment was assured) This has - allowing for the usual in-fighting and disputes - morphed in some quarters to the Pure Land being here, now. This would be the view of those such as D T Suzuki, as in his book "Buddha of Infinite Light". Of course, Suzuki was also a "zen man" and was much taken with the views of the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart ( who also loved his "now" moment of "creation" always being now, and not in the past)

    As I see it, your questions revolved around the fact that if Reality is trusted, totally, then trust/faith in it cannot be falsified. How could it be? Leading on from this, Dogen subscribed to the Mahayana Buddhist view of intrinsic enlightenment - enlightenment as a given. The great question for Dogen then became - and reading biographical details of Dogen's life this question drove him deep into existential despair, to "practice as if his head was on fire" as they say in the land of zen - this being so, why practice at all? (I would say this has parallels with St Paul's cry of "shall we sin all the more that grace may abound" but perhaps not)

    I know I'm waffling, but I write more to clarify my own mind, apologies to others. This relates to the great zen koan, "Does a dog have Buddha Nature?" Any answer, yes or no, is ludicrous in a non-dual Reality. The "answer" can only be the "middle way", not a way at all, not a position at all; not a place between two extremes, but a "no-position" that transcends both. ("Transcends" not quite correct but words fail me)

    Again, Dogen. For him it was in effect the intensity of "practice" that mattered. For him, each and every moment was Buddha-nature, this without negating the difference between enlightenment and the unenlightened. Just as for him there was no difference between dreams and the waking state. Each were "illusion" and that being so, each were totally real.

    So yes, the "journey is home", the great circle of "practice" is continuous. We are all enlightened, but keep up the good work. And meanwhile, at least for me, the Nembutsu - thank you, thank you, thank you. Total trust.

    Sorry if others find this confusing, but given some other posts here, I feel no real need to apologise.
     
  6. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

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    I enjoyed a nice cup of Costa's coffee while posting the above.
     
  7. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

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    "We are that which we understand" (Dogen)

    Yet not a static state, we are not imprisoned.

    All is gift. I have always loved the "touching the earth" Buddha, one hand rests, palm open, receiving. The other reaches down, touching the earth. Everything valuable is pure gift, unearned, not "attained", we can only receive and pass it on. The Tao can be shared, never divided.
     
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  8. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

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    Well, previously I spoke of the "murky mire of Mahayana" and the phrase above is more quicksand. It encourages stupidity. The Dharma is a raft, "for crossing over, not for grasping". When the other shore is reached, the raft can be dispensed with. Alas, ego or whatever takes over (call it plain old pride) and we can leap from the raft in mid-ocean. On Buddhist Forums I have asked simple questions and received the answer "Why do you keep saying zen?" Another "answer" was "it's mighty cold outside today". I try not to be judgemental, and I can happily accept that others have much greater insight, but really?

    Obviously, in "non-duality", straight forward logic would suggest that "samsara and nirvana" are "one" - or "not two".

    But as Dogen says:- "On the great road of buddha ancestors there is always unsurpassable practice, continuous and sustained. It forms the circle of the way and is never cut off. Between aspiration, practice, enlightenment, and nirvana, there is not a moment's gap; continuous practice is the circle of the way."

    Or as Thomas Merton once said, "what we must be is what we are"
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  9. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Yes...

    I think there is a difference in quality between a psychological insight, which is what I take the Thomas Merton quote to be, and a spiritual insight such as nonduality, in that the latter can encompass the former but not vice-versa. What do you think?
     
  10. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

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    I would not seek to judge the "quality" of Thomas Merton's insight. On certain Buddhist forums he has come in for a bit of stick as being "just an intellectual", simply a man of words, this in contrast to the "prajna insight" of "true" zen. I have read much on/by Merton, or Father Louis as he was known in the monastery. Yes, he was very intellectual, and given his 5 volumes of letters and 7 volumes of his almost daily Journals, definitely a man of words and letters. But in those letters and journals is evidence and testimony to hour upon hour of meditation, of both Christian and Zen traditions. In an exchange of letters with a Muslim, Abdul Aziz, at the insistent request of Mr Aziz, Merton provides details of his meditation "techniques", and they do appear quite deep and profound - along what I would call the via-negativa path. Whatever, there is obviously a difference between a simple intellectual explanation of insight into reality, and the insight itself.

    I would say that the two do not necessarily exclude each other.

    Speaking for myself, I only seek a certain clarity of mind. I am certainly not enlightened in the sense normally presumed by many. I often think the word is abysmal, with the core Theravada texts speaking rather of the "unshakeable deliverance of mind" and not forgetting that they also record the Buddha as calling love the "liberation of the heart".

    I simply say the Nembutsu - thank you, thank you, thank you. "Clarity" and "calculation" are for me two totally different things, if I can speak in a conventional dualistic way!
     
  11. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

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    I will definitely dig out the Pure Land explication of "calculation" (Japanese hakarai) for anyone interested. I'll post it in the Buddhist section.
     
  12. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    I have a lot of respect for Thomas Merton. And psychological insight is nothing to be scoffed at. It has a different feel to it than other types of insights, for me. More localized and personal.

    Liberation of the heart is a good thing!

    I have a few devotional verses I recite regularly during the course of a day. We had a discussion about "inflaming oneself in prayer" in a different sub-forum a while ago.
     
  13. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

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    There's not much structure at all to my days, but without claiming much, there is a degree of "presence" and mindfulness. As well as the "thank you's"!

    I'm afraid I seem to have taken your "psychological" insight the wrong way, presuming you were seeing it as merely intellectual. The whole passage that Merton spoke was:-

    And the deepest level of communication is not communication, but communion. It is wordless, it is beyond words, and it is beyond speech, and it is beyond concept. Not that we discover a new unity. We discover an older unity. My dear brothers (and sisters), we are already one. But we imagine that we are not. And what we have to recover is our original unity. What we have to be is what we are.

    (He spoke these words in Calcutta, while on his final pilgrimage through Asia)

    Have you seen the Merton thread here? I was, in my previous incarnation, Tariki.
     
  14. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Yes, been reading your posts.
     
  15. CobblersApprentice

    CobblersApprentice Active Member

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    The one posted by Thomas on The Gift of Freedom has been influential for me.
     
  16. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Welcome here.
     
  17. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    Thankyou .. May G-d guide us all
     

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