Am I a Christian?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by usernamed, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    Crap eh?
    Consider this verse then:

    “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

    Matthew 18:6

    *deleted*
     
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  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    The context:

    https://biblehub.com/niv/romans/3.htm

    1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.

    3What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

    “So that you may be proved right when you speakand prevail when you judge.”

    5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!"

    Do you see the problem?

    Shall I repost all those quotes in their context?
     
  3. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    Your coming accross a little confused.
    Paul wrote his OWN letters and his OWN testimony, Luke wrote a diluted version of events that Josephus wrote in more detail, only the two together read more of a confusing timeline of events that include political propaganda and cannot be easily summarised ?
    Jesus found in Matthew is not really that hard to follow.

    Why do you insist on defining Jesus by using Paul who hardly ever mentions Jesus even though he packs out nearly two thirds of what is deemed the New Testement.
    The Gospels are not Paul.
    Paul wrote his epistles (mainly antinomianism mixed with "grace")
     
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Sigh. Oh, I thought we believed Paul (Paulists) edited the gospels to create a peaceful Jesus, corrupting the originals? So do we agree the gospels themselves are authentic, as far as Paul corrupting their text?
     
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  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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  6. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    If you wish to put your trust in scholars, scientists and other experts in the field itsno skin off my back. Fill yer boots.
    Still requires your faith and trust in them, Im begining to doubt you understand human error, but then if these people are all we got its far easier to conclude they have no idea and how does that effect Jesus easy to comprehend commands to you or I?
    You seem to hold men in quite high esteem where results are clearly lacking. Its not even a complicated procedure, theu find some scrolls, very good, they use carbon dating which we trust works and we put our faith in their conclusions and we all go home to a nice Shepherds Pie, but first you have to accept these people have your best interests at heart, the clue about Eisenman getting the authorities to allow the public in on the whole thing I thought might relay how secretive these people are when left to their own devices, your very trusting I have to say.
     
  7. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Oh no, I'm understanding it fine, lol
     
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  9. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi usernamed.
    I am so sorry, I see I have completely missed your post #145.

    The way I read the closing chapters of Acts is much as you describe. The Jews want to kill Paul, he appeals to local govt. on the grounds of his Roman citizenship. They look into it, and find no case against Paul. As you cited: "King Agrippa after hearing this, remarked: This man might have been set free if he had not appealed to Caesar” (Acts 26;32).

    Your interpretation of Acts 28 that I disagree with.
    You say: "Acts 28 attempts to mislead saying this was to preach Jesus’ message ... "
    Well according to the text, that's what he did. Where's your evidence to say he didn't?

    Who suggests there is conspiracy of the 'Jesus Jews'? Where is the evidence of conflict between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians?

    The text says Paul preached Christ to the Jews. He always preached to the Jews first. I don't see any reference to an anti-Jerusalem Christian conspiracy?

    Well that's a bit of a quantum leap ...

    How do they clearly do that when they don't mention Paul or the events in Rome?

    Steady. You say 'we know', but that's what scholars say ;) What is generally agreed is that:
    The reference in Book 18, Chapter 5 of the Antiquities on the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist is regarded as authentic. A number of differences between Josephus on the deaths of James and John the Baptist and the New Testament accounts lead scholars to agree that the Josephus passages are not Christian interpolations.

    The text in Book 18 saying Jesus was the Messiah and a wise teacher who was crucified by Pilate (Testimonium Flavianum) is regarded as an interpolation, but the same scholars also agree there was probably an authentic reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate, which was then subject to Christian interpolation.

    The second reference to Jesus, Book 20, Chapter 9: "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James." is considered more likely to be authentic than the Testimonium.

    Saulus, mentioned by Josephus, is not Paul. They're two different people.

    'The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence', as the saying goes.

    I think you're wrong here.

    Josephus does not mention Paul in any of the writings we have. Indeed, some have argued that Paul didn't exist because Josephus never mentions him!

    Hardened Christian skeptics like Robert Price, who questions most of what we know of Jesus, agrees that Paul was a real person who was influential in establishing Christianity, but not mentioned by Josephus. Bart Ehrman, another famous skeptic who opposes the orthodox Christianity histories was on a phone-in with a caller who used Josephus to argue that Paul never existed. Ehrman told him not to make unwise claims that make atheists look bad. But he agreed that Josephus does not mention Paul.

    I don't know of any who support this conspiracy you speak of? I've never come across it before.

    I have met those who say 'Paul invented Christianity', there's loads on the web, but there's no-one, I think, who's a recognised scholar who make the kind of claims your making?
     
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  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    He WASN'T a revolutionary? Paul was right about him?
     
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  11. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    Im not trying to be a smart Alec here but I think you missed the link to the author your wrongly attributing to me, is Sayed MS Nasser if you look, I was trying to make the point that people from all different faiths and backgrounds seem to have issues with Paul not just myself.
     
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  12. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    Jesus says he's coming back with a sword (establishing the second coming to be unlike what most Christians will be expecting)
    Jesus will be searching out a very small surviving remnant from the LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL (144,000 from amongst the decendants of Jacob)... this still leaves Paul' every Greek or Jew....everyone...even your dog.... is a grace heaven lottery winner. Or does it?
     
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  13. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    So basically (correct me if Im wrong) Paul says its ok to lie (giving the context through which it ok to lie).

    If we have the holy spirit and wish to walk with Jesus we wont need to resort to ever using a lie, my mum and dad told me not to lie and so did the school teacher, policeman and my ex wife also...
    So is Paul making light dark and the dark light?
     
  14. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    :D
     
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    OK. Sayed M S Nasser is not a scholar, so we can discount his writings.
     
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  16. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    Again it reeks of elitism.

    Scholars are human, humans make mistakes.

    Why can't facts be allowed to stand up for themselves.....or imagine NOT one single work was attributed or could be by name...what defining strategy or criteria would you use while ploughing through articles about archeology etc?
    Discernment? Gut instinct? The game is sewn up a bit tight, thats all Im saying, if a scholar makes a conclusion do we check his credentials or the truth of substance in his words matched by his works?

    James and Paul fell out over this.

    Instead of shutting out everyone we should be inviting all who deserve it most.
    Matthew 19:14
     
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  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Ok, that's fine then. You have your interpretation of the message of Jesus. There is a huge range of Christian sects and churches and adaptations, from Orthodox to Jehova's Witnesses, to New Apostolic, to Catholics, to thousands of American splinter groups and so ... well ... a third of the world's population.

    Of course you're entitled to your opinion. As am I to ihink it's hokum. So we'll need to agree to disagree etc, and move on?
     
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  18. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Look, that was a rhetorical question, not an invitation to indulge in more crap.
     
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  19. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    I disagree it is hokum but if you insist, I have enjoyed our debate and thanks also. Whatever the truth will survive.

    "For Esau is the end of the world, and Jacob is the beginning of the world that followeth"
    2 Esdras 6:9

    I need a coffee break.
     
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  20. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    No worries Cino, but please read the court case in the link I provided if your serious and not looking to stir up trouble.
    Food for thought for you and in honor of those poor children I cannot EVER agree it is crap.
    Cheers.
     

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