Am I a Christian?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by usernamed, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    No, what you're saying is 'we only find out by reading into Josephus stuff that isn't there'

    Saulus. Different person. They were brothers. Josephus does not specify the parents, but the name 'Costobar' provides a clue: their grandfather was very likely Costobar(us), the second husband of Salome, the sister of Herod the Great. Paul was born in Cilicia, and refers to himself as "of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee" (Philemon 3:5). The Herodians were not Benjamite. The Herodians and the Pharisees were different cults.

    LOL. Look, here's a man called Paul. And hers's a man called Saulus, living in the same century ... they must be the same person, that they have radically different heritages only proves someone is lying.

    Not 'clear' at all ... dependent on drawing conclusions not supported by the texts themselves.

    Nope, I've already explained that. Kinship with Herodian and a load of others.

    Nope.

    To Judaism? Since when was Paul converting people to Judaism?

    Wrong. Paul collected money for the mother church in Jerusalem from the communities he founded. No evidence at all that he kept the money for himself. A spurious lie.

    Also wrong — we can date these events from Josephus and others, and this happened about 49AD, more than ten years before Paul arrived in Rome, so the un-named Jew cannot be Paul.

    See? Too many errors. Too much reading what's not there. Too many assumptions and assertions without foundation. Too many sleight-of-hand tricks to hold water. Too much fabrication.
     
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  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    No. The opposite. He is telling those accusing him of lying that they are deliberately misunderstanding him to avoid recognising the truth. And that even if they call him a liar, God's truth remains. ie: deliberate misunderstanding is always the sign of a lying heart.

    Here is another version of the passage, the amplified version:


    "Then what is the advantage of the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God [His very [a]words]. 3 What then? If some did not believe or were unfaithful [to God], their lack of belief will not nullify and make invalid the faithfulness of God and His word, will it? 4 Certainly not! Let God be found true [as He will be], though every person be found a liar, just as it is written [in Scripture],

    “That You may be justified in Your words,
    And prevail when You are judged [by sinful men].”

    if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? God is not wrong to inflict His wrath [on us], is He? (I am speaking in purely human terms.) 6 Certainly not! For otherwise, how will God judge the world? 7 But [as you might say] if through my lie God’s truth was magnified and abounded to His glory, why am I still being judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, (as some slanderously report and claim that we teach) “Let us do evil so that good may come of it”? Their condemnation [by God] is just...

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3&version=AMP
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  3. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Try harder. Say it out loud. Show us what you really care about. Stop projecting on poor old Paul.

    You *are* aware Jesus was a Jew, right?
     
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  4. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    I read Paul to be over zelous om controlling the narrative, problem is he didn't care to take treasure from his chest "old and new" because Paul knew not of Ezekiels instructions regarding the uncircumcised into the inner chamber. Massive red flag right there. Eisenman alludes to this in his book. Paul quotes the Original Testement but omits Ezekiels charge when he brought Trophimus in...
     
  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Perhaps. Perhaps the stars are little diamonds in the sky. Perhaps babies come from coconuts. Perhaps anything ...
     
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  6. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    If you say so...
     
  7. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    Basically you can't be bothered.
     
  8. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    That passage omits the word "lie" .
    Why?
     
  9. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Just be honest about your priorities.
     
  10. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    You need to concentrate which forum you're on. You control your sockpuppets, not vice versa.
     
  11. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    I asked whether I am a Christian....
    Your telling me Jesus was a Jew....
     
  12. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    4 Certainly not! Let God be found true [as He will be], though every person be found a liar, just as it is written [in Scripture]

    Things change when people like your earlier source start deliberately taking out of context and misrepresenting and mischeviously misunderstanding scripture. That is why I am correcting him.

    As I said, deliberate misunderstanding is the sign of a mischievous or lying heart.

    Not you. I believe you are mislead. But you are not dealing with ignorant people here. I am prepared to learn from you, as I do from others here. But when it comes down all I'm getting is that I should reject the majority of experts and instead believe a conspiracy theory that has been shot full of holes in this thread?

    Nothing personal.
     
  13. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    So do you have a problem with that? You hold Jews in very low regard, judging from that pdf you posted and your comment about usury.
     
  14. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    Cool. I linked you the author and you don't agree with him either, 2 down 200 to go....
    No seriously you should write a book Thomas and put all these anti-Pauline websites out of business once and for all I say. I guess this is what they meant when they said Paul will eat himself, the irony of antinomianism?
    Has the confusion simply bred more confusion, a fair question because Jesus doesn't seem to get the same standard of inquiry as Paul for some strange reason and people suggest Jesus never existed but claim Paul did and that he speaks the same Gospel as a man who they claim didn't exist.
    ....and then Paul Simon "graceland" sold out.
    You cannot make this stuff up.
     
  15. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    That reads to me like Orwellian double-speak.
    "Let God be found True"....yes ok...
    "Let all persons be liars"....er no Paul simply TELL THE TRUTH as a man not a licentious Roman "Person" .
    Your not going to tell me Paul says Ive got it all wrong again?
    Person or Man
    Persona with privileged status or man with all GOD GIVEN rights intact?
    Come on Paul....

    Like I keep saying your "clinging" to experts who are trying to defend a liar. I don't blame you either.
    Difficult to pass off when your grounded in Jesus, but your only left using Paul to defend Paul which I have explained many times.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  16. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    Have you read that court case?
    NO?

    Do you understand why it was dropped?
    Do you know the history of the expulsions?
    I give NO opinion, the cause and effect are there documented in history, but your probably just going to use the adhominem because you CERTAINLY cannot of read it if your trying to assert you know anything about me or my charachter, keep your fetish for Usury because I find it disgusting!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Yes. Over and over again. Yawn
    Let God be found true EVEN though all persons be found liars -- is the clear meaning of the phrase taken in context.

    What's not to understand? I'm starting to feel like a hamster on a wheel ...
     
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  18. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    Romans 2:11 King James Version (KJV)
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


    person (n.)

    early 13c., from Old French persone "human being, anyone, person" (12c., Modern Frenchpersonne) and directly from Latin persona"human being, person, personage; a part in a drama, assumed character," originally "a mask, a false face," such as those of wood or clay worn by the actors in later Roman theater. OED offers the general 19c. explanation of persona as "related to" Latinpersonare "to sound through" (i.e. the mask as something spoken through and perhaps amplifying the voice), "but the long o makes a difficulty ...." Klein and Barnhart say it is possibly borrowed from Etruscan phersu"mask." Klein goes on to say this is ultimately of Greek origin and comparesPersephone.


    Your context from Pauls lie is still without the knowledge of who is currently trying to be "won" because a Persona is clearly a lie to God (who he gives lipservice to) but why use person when he could of simply used "Man"? (hence te expression...("just-be-your-self-man")
    Because he is a jew amongst jews and a Greek amongst Greeks...ROMAN amongst ROMANS who have a person (Paul is a bit of an actor isnt he?). Its obvious to me anyway. It is effectively like saying "while I am a Roman my lie(my persona) will win me something...where God will not..."
    Maybe he wanted to excercise some benefit of citizenship? God does not lie and nor should MEN as it is COMMANDED. That only leaves Paul enjoying his Roman "persona"...was he writing to the Romans by any chance? No respect from those who HAVE God either ie James? Different LAW system :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Not really. I'm with the majority, by definition not an elite. I think it's rather elitist to assume scholars don't know what they're talking about, that such-and-such is right and everyone else is wrong ... I'm afraid you're in the elitist position here. You alone here know the truth, the rest of us have been deluded by an institutional conspiracy to hide the truth.

    Yep, which is why everything they say is crossed checked and evaluated by rigorous peer review, before anyone says they're right.

    Because most of what you point to is not factual?

    Yes, more than anyone else. A scholars work is not accepted if the evidence does not back it up, whereas the sources you've quoted, I've shown to be misreadings if not factually wrong.

    And claiming because there's nothing there 'clearly' shows a cover-up holds no water at all.
     
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  20. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    No need. Most people know its hokum. The ofthers refuse to see the truth.

    Well whoever you're following patently is :D
     

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