On the impossibility of doing good

[KnowSelf]

Preserving human dignity by not berating others? Or perhaps, preserving human dignity by convincing myself that it is outside of time ans space? Are you saying, preserving human dignity although in reality you have no control over such matters is these. Are you a Savior?

 

[KnowSelf]

I think the key to understanding good and evil, yin and yang is balance. The concept of spiritual dualism assumes that good and evil exist in opposition of one another. Moral dualism simply means benevolent and malevolent in moral conflict of each other. I believe in order for life exist both are necessary for proprietorial growth and evolution. The world as it is known consists of checks and balances that cannot fully interpreted within the limited scope of human understanding.

We understand this in the survival of the fittest, however, when a healthy person is shot or run over by a car it is difficult to concede death was orchestrated based on one's health. A senseless murder of an innocent cannot be explained or understood, for me I find comfort in the understanding greater forces are at work here that although I do not understand, but by faith I accept it without need for understanding. I am at peace.

 

[Bulletcatcher]

Preserving human dignity by not berating others? Or perhaps, preserving human dignity by convincing myself that it is outside of time ans space? Are you saying, preserving human dignity although in reality you have no control over such matters is these. Are you a Savior?

I try to defend human dignity from a materialistic world view that sees humans as pure robots of genes directed by primitive instincts preprogrammed by evolution.

 

[Bulletcatcher]

Preserving human dignity by not berating others? Or perhaps, preserving human dignity by convincing myself that it is outside of time ans space? Are you saying, preserving human dignity although in reality you have no control over such matters is these. Are you a Savior?

Frankly I have just lost interest to defend human dignity.

 

[RJM]

I think the key to understanding good and evil, yin and yang is balance.

This is a quite incorrect interpretation of yin/yang. It is not about good/evil. Male is not good, against female bad. Water is not good against fire bad.

Light is all that exists and darkness is shadow -- is simply the lack of light, not its opposite. The Primal World (spiritual) polarity between Heaven/Earth is shifted to the polarity between Fire/Water in the Inner World (nature) arrangement of trigrams.

The greater wheel of Spirit turns the lesser wheel of nature, but is not turned by it. Spirit surrounds and contains and permeates nature.

Evil is what gets through the cracks, and is relative to the observer.

Lion thinks Zebra looks best on a plate
Zebra thinks Lion looks best in a cage.

Imo

 

[RJM]

The I Ching is the book of changes. Change will happen. Change is the only certainty. There is no standstill. Standstill is stagnation, and stagnation is dying. Imo

 

[KnowSelf]

This is a quite incorrect interpretation of yin/yang. It is not about good/evil. Male is not good, against female bad. Water is not good against water bad.

Light is all that exists and darkness is shadow -- is simply the lack of light, not its opposite. The Primal World (spiritual) polarity between Heaven/Earth is shifted to the polarity between Fire/Water in the Inner World (nature) arrangement of trigrams.

The greater wheel of Spirit turns the lesser wheel of nature, but is not turned by it. Spirit surrounds and contains and permeates nature.

Evil is what gets through the cracks, and is relative to the observer.

Lion thinks Zebra looks best on a plate
Zebra thinks Lion looks best in a cage.

Imo

I stand corrected

 

[RJM]

I stand corrected

Love you, bro

It's not easy stuff. The I Ching holds great wisdom, imo

 

[KnowSelf]

B

Frankly I have just lost interest to defend human dignity.

I've never come across a question as yours, it certainly boggles my train of thought and reason. Is Bulletcatcher a reference to taking the fall for fellow mankind? An Evolutionist. How do you propose change in a world that seems to take care of itself.

 

[RJM]

Total extinction of the human race would only be 'evil' from the perspective of the human race? Total extinction of bees would only be bad in its effect upon our own lives. The world would go on, without us, or bees?

 

[Bulletcatcher]

B

I've never come across a question as yours, it certainly boggles my train of thought and reason. Is Bulletcatcher a reference to taking the fall for fellow mankind? An Evolutionist. How do you propose change in a world that seems to take care of itself.

From the start you have been asking questions about me, my motivation and you continue to speculate about it. My person is not what I want to discuss when doing philosophical thought experiments. I want to discuss the thought experiment I proposed initially.

 

[KnowSelf]

So sorry friend, I'm trying to get a grasp of where you are coming from and the nature of your experiment. My deepest apology for seemingly putting you the spot for that was never intention. Perhaps simply put I don't how to answer your question because I don't understand it. No reflection on anybody

 

[KnowSelf]

I believe people are capable of doing good without expectation of personal gain. Unselfish acts of kindness occur everyday

 

[KnowSelf]

I believe people are capable of doing good without expectation of personal gain. Unselfish acts of kindness occur everyday

People are inheritable sinful, that is the nature of the human condition, however, according to Christian faith, believers may be spiritually transformed into new beings in association with the Jesus Covenant between God and mankind in holy sacrifice via Jesus, the Lamb of God.

For some people this is hard conceive, therefore, perhaps, through automatic elimination due to a lack of faith and understanding are not called to be Christians. I was brought up to believe Christianity is the only way to everlasting peace as one in the presence of God. Although I was led to believe I cannot accurately report this as true for everyone, it is only what is true to me because I do not know differently.

 

[Bulletcatcher]

I think there really might be a route to disproof evolution if you can proof that true unecessary evil exist.

And an unecessary evil would be to experience free will while it is not there and in reality good for nothing.

Similarly you do not need a conscious experience of pain to avoid pain, you just could programm a computer to react to the pain signal coming in over a certain nerve fiber (philosophical zombie with pain reflexes)

Here you can see what the atheist thinks the illusion of free will is good for in evolution (so that the problem of unecessary evil does not arise):

https://danielmiessler.com/blog/an-evolutionary-explanation-for-our-experience-of-free-will/

The most funny highlight of the text:

"First, I bet it’s untrue that no one has given a good explanation for why evolution could have selected for the sensation/illusion/experience of free will; I think it’s much more likely that these commenters (that don't see evolutionary explanations) simply haven’t read those explanations. In their defense (of that comentors that can't find such an explanation), though, I have read a decent amount on this topic and haven’t seen a good explanation either.

That made my day

The alternative explanation given in the text is not good either. Firstly animals that seem concious (mirror experiment) do not necessarily form societies.

Secondly "moral blame" as every computer scientist should see quickest is just a sort of reward system that could be substituted through a non-conscious reward, such as giving a certain brain area more energy when it engages in social interactions. You hence do not need to be conscious or (wrongly? as an illusion?) assume you have moral choices to build a complex society.

 

[RJM]

People are inheritable sinful, that is the nature of the human condition, however, according to Christian faith, believers may be spiritually transformed into new beings in association with the Jesus Covenant between God and mankind in holy sacrifice via Jesus, the Lamb of God.

For some people this is hard conceive, therefore, perhaps, through automatic elimination due to a lack of faith and understanding are not called to be Christians. I was brought up to believe Christianity is the only way to everlasting peace as one in the presence of God. Although I was led to believe I cannot accurately report this as true for everyone, it is only what is true to me because I do not know differently.

I think it's like we have the map but the actual features on the ground are far more detailed and much more complex?

 

[KnowSelf]

Another question, do belief systems choose their followers?

 

[RJM]

Another question, do belief systems choose their followers?

I think it's you who said: They meet us where we are?

 

[KnowSelf]

They meet us where we are, makes sense in that in accordance of our time and space the law of attraction invite like minds

 

[RJM]

I really meant that for those who have learned to seek, that the spiritual forces find us where we are, and guide us on from there, regardless of our particular religion or belief system, in any time or any place?

However it is time for me to stop talking and start listening, because I'm sounding like someone who knows something ...