Christian worship service

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by KnowSelf, Dec 15, 2019.

  1. StevePame

    StevePame Administrator Staff Member

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    I am sorry for your frustration. I’ve modified some settings so you shouldn’t have messages flagged for moderation anymore.

    Please let me know if you do. Thanks.
     
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  2. Truthseeker9

    Truthseeker9 Member

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    Thanks for your help
     
  3. Truthseeker9

    Truthseeker9 Member

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    In the Baha'i Faith we already reconcile science and religion. Abdu'l-Baha said:

    The fourth teaching of Bahá’u’lláh is the agreement of religion and science. God has endowed man with intelligence and reason whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions. If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible and there is no outcome but wavering and vacillation.

    , “Bahá’í World Faith (‘Abdu’l-Bahá section)”

    Of course reason and evidence has to apply to science, also. Using reason is very much a part of the Baha'i Faith.

    We believe that there will be a time when all or just about all will be a Baha'i. Also before then how Baha'i looks at this influence others.

    The world legislature will eventually pick a world literature for schools. I'm sure these will be in the world language, but there is nothing to stop them from having them in native languages. Also there is no reason, at least to me, that schools will not teach their native literature. There is no reason why not already existing literature would not be part of the world literature when the auxiliary language is picked.

    I'm taking a break to do my devotions, I will soon be back. I'm going to watch a couple of football games later today, and need to do my devotions before 4:25 eastern time.

    I skipped over that part about a world metropolis. I'm not sure but I think he was referring to Haifa, Israel, where the Baha'i world center exists. I'll bring back the quote that refers to this:

    A world metropolis will act as the nerve center of a world civilization, the focus towards which the unifying forces of life will converge and from which its energizing influences will radiate.

    Shoghi Effendi, “The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh”

    We believe that the World Center with the Universal House of Justice will be the focus of the world eventually and that the energizing influences will come from there, including the translated Baha'i literature probably, the spiritual influence of the Universal House of Justice, and the spiritual influence of the shrines of Baha'u'llah and the Bab there. Of course, I don't expect you to believe that, but that's how we see it.

    Now I really will take a break.
     
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  4. Truthseeker9

    Truthseeker9 Member

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    Let me quote the original passage first:

    The economic resources of the world will be organized, its sources of raw materials will be tapped and fully utilized, its markets will be coördinated and developed, and the distribution of its products will be equitably regulated.

    Shoghi Effendi, “The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh”

    At first it may not be like this, but trustworthiness is a cardinal virtue in the Baha'i Faith and itis a virtue that combats corruption. In the future a lot more emphasis will be laid on moral training in schools, not just academic subjects. Also I expect that parents will have more training in raising children to be good. There will more resources in the world to devote to this training in a world without much military spending and there will be further economic development. Also economic conditions are linked to things like crime and corruption, and the economic situation will be better in the future. The human race is already evolving morally. Violence has been decreasing in the world as a program on PBS program on NOVA showed. I expect that over time we will be much more evolved morally.

    Time for football
     
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  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Member

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    That is interesting that you say that. I think that more Baha'is were formerly Christians than were Muslims. I do not know any Muslims who became Baha'is. I think there are more people walking away from Christianity than Islam. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and Christianity is growing much more slowly, since many people in Europe and North America are dropping out of Christianity and becoming atheists.

    Why would it increase its favorability if Islam rejects it most?
     
  6. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    I am Christian thereby having no resemblance to the Bahal faith movement. As far as I can tell with bahal there is no heaven or after-life meaning there is no incentive for God to live within. Bahal seems like a social experiment that will ultimately fail from humanities effort to fix things on our own without God's love and direction.
    Sadly, people see the violence, they hear about corruption in high places, but for many of us this sinful behavior only exists in newspapers and public media. God knows the sin and troubles of the world and yet He waits to His appointed time to change lives and the world in which we live in.

    Bahal speaks of lighting the way for his followers, but my God is the true and light of salvation and Jesus opens the doorway of eternal love and happiness. I cannot imagine what it is like to die and be with God forever, I am dead certain, however, that Bahal is a self-proclaimed god organization that preys upon people with the promise of social-economic change and equality. The Have's continue to Have while the social-economical advancement for the Have-Not's stay the same. People cannot progressively exist under equality standards because everyone has different needs and abilities. How does Bahal address peoples need variants and cost for medical services, who will pay?

    When I invited Jesus into my life, my life changed in a Supernatural Natural sort of way, or being "Born Again" Obviously, I was not born a second time from my mother's womb but there is great significance in the term "Born Again" I became a new man with the intelligence and insight to overcome my mental health symptoms. Can Bahal do this for his followers?

    People sometimes have difficulty becoming a Christian because it involves surrendering of one's self on faith that Jesus replaces personal baggage.stuff with the Holy Spirit. I stopped smoking cigarettes cold turkey with no cravings. I asked God to help me stop and I quit simple as that.

    Because of faith I do not worry about things, I trust God in everything I do. God gives me hope and security in all of my endeavors because I am as much in Him as He is in me. I am free to do and think as I will because God is in me.
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Same reason when a priest says don't go see this movie lots of catholics do.

    My thoughts were totally my own and conjecture.

    I found it hard to determine actual growth by country of Baha'i since its inception.
     
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Member

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    Okay, I understand. People want what they are not supposed to have, the forbidden fruit.
    That might be true of some things, but I am not so sure it applies to religion.
    I doubt there are any accurate records of that, but there might be some records I do not know about.
     
  9. Truthseeker9

    Truthseeker9 Member

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    There is an afterlife for Baha'is. Whatever gave you the idea there wasn't? We believe in heaven and hell. Heaven is closeness to God, whether in this life or the next. Hell is farness from God, whether in this life or the next.

    We have the guidance of God through Baha'u'llah and all the prophets. It is by God's direction and love through Baha'u'llah that the world will be transformed through our actions.
    Of course different people have different needs and abilities. Baha'is certainly recognize that. I don't know what you are getting at, what does that have to with equality? Equality does not mean sameness. We believe not in economic equality but the elimination of the extremes of wealth and poverty. I must say you are being judgmental in saying that the Baha'i organization is preying on people. How would you feel if someone said that about Christianity. Didn't Christ say not to be judgmental? I don't feel angry at you however because I don't feel angry at people who are misleading themselves.
    I congratulate you for being born again. I don't doubt that you were. I don't think that God has done this for me, but it has transformed many Baha'is. I also don't doubt that there are many Christians don't get transformed. It has nothing to do with superiority of one religion over another, it is individual. I have changed for the better over my life somewhat and sometimes I have felt the Holy Spirit.

    Baha'i involves surrendering oneself to the will of God, and sacrificing yourself for God and mankind. It means replacing ones own bad qualities for the qualities of God.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  10. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    It seems you're describing the Reformed tradition, an edifice of Christian doctrine supported by John Calvin and other like-minded thinkers from the Protestant world.
     
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  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Member

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    No, that is not true. Baha'is believe in an afterlife and a heaven, but we do not believe heaven is a geographical location. Rather, heaven is nearness to God. Baha'is do not believe that God lives inside of them but rather that God is separate from His Creation. We cannot be partners with God because God is exalted beyond everything that can be recounted or perceived by humans.

    The aspect of the Baha'i Faith people have been discussing on this forum is the building of the Kingdom of God on earth, but that is just one aspect of the Baha'i Faith. The other aspect is the individual, one's relationship to od and acquiring spiritual qualities.
    When do you think that appointed time will come?
    Do you think that God is going to change lives and the world in which we live in? How will God do that?
    How can you be dead certain that I am dead certain, however, that Baha'i is a self-proclaimed god organization that preys upon people with the promise of social-economic change and equality?
    Economic equality does not mean sameness because everyone has different needs and abilities. The Baha'i Faith has no plans in place to address peoples need variants and cost for medical services, who will pay. That would be determined by the governments of the nations when the time comes.
    I had a similar experience and I know other Baha'is who have had such experiences. I had serious mental health issues. I overcame some of them before my "God experience" but I still had lingering problems that could not be resolved by professional help. I believe God helped me and God helps me now because I finally reached out for help.
    I agree but from my viewpoint I would say surrendering oneself to God, because God is who I worship.
    My mother stopped drinking and smoking cold turkey in older age after she joined the Baha'i Faith.
    I do not believe that God is in me but I believe that God is watching over me and helping me, guiding me in my choices. That is why I do not worry about things the way I used to. :)
     
  12. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Thank you. Inspiring
     
  13. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Do you care to discuss what form your devotions take?
     
  14. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    It is obvious you are well versed in your religion, perhaps a little too much for me to consider it all true. Baha’i concerns me of its far reaching affect across the world. If Baha’i s comes to pass as predicted Baha’i will certainly move mountains and control/influence the world according to Baha’i. With this much power and control over world citizenship makes me fearful of believing differently.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  15. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    My take on the back and forth on the future governance of the world, where Cino, Colbet and I take a critical position to the claims, I would like to state (and I wish to be corrected if I'm wrong) that these things are articles of faith. Just as the the afterlife or the nature of sin, either you accept them as true or you do not. The Baha'i present an utopian future where all creeds live in harmony together, I find it hopeful. It does not, as I'm guessing with Cino and Corbet, reflect the world as we experience it. And as we do not share theirfaith we don't really have a reason to.

    So I think that what I'm saying is that it can be discussed as an aspect of faith, or a sociological/political aspect, I don't think they can be discussed as both at the same time.
     
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  16. Truthseeker9

    Truthseeker9 Member

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    We won't have any power and control over world citizenship. Those who believe differently will have nothing to fear. The other religions will also have their influence too. You are making a hasty generalization based on the Christian past.
    It doesn't reflect the world as I experience right now either. But you're right, it is an article of faith. I don't expect you to believe it unless you fully investigate and come to the conclusion that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God. All I ask of all of you is respect the beliefs of others.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
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  17. Truthseeker9

    Truthseeker9 Member

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    We have a choice of three obligatory prayers. A short one between noon and sunset, a medium one three times a day, or a long one once a day. Currently I am saying the long prayer. We also say Allah'u'Abha 95 times, which in English means "God is the most glorious". Before I say both of these I do ablutions, which means washing the hands and face, which is a symbol of purity, and also clears the mind in preparation of prayer. This is similar to Islam. In Islam they also do ablutions before 5 obligatory prayers at set times of the day. In addition I personally have a program called Ocean, which has scriptures of several religions or philosophies. In the most recent version it has the feature of giving an audio presentation of some of the scriptures. Currently I have the audio of the first 19 of the short passages of the Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah, which is an ethical and spiritual work. That is my current routine. It has been different in some aspects in the past.
     
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  18. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    I’ m a little confused. How does someone being well versed in his or her faith make it difficult for you to consider it all true?
     
  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Do you have a sabbath?
    Exactly as you say.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  20. Truthseeker9

    Truthseeker9 Member

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    We have a calendar of 19 months with 19 days in each month, and to fill in the rest of the year we have 4 or 5 intercalary days. On the first day of each month we have what we call a feast, which has three parts to it. In the first part, the devotional part we recite from our Writings. In the second part we talk about affairs in our local community, what we plan to do next, make recommendations for the Local Spiritual Assembly, and hear monthly letters from our national spiritual assembly, stuff like that. The third part is the social part, where we eat some food and talk to each other. Where our local community has nine or more members we have a Local Spiritual Assembly which consists of nine members elected by secret ballot, in which campaigning is not allowed, and we simply vote according to our conscience based on their character and other considerations. This election takes place on Ridvan each year which is either April 20 or April 21, which is the anniversary of the declaration of Baha'u'llah in 1863. In the far future we will have Fridays off, like the Muslims. I forget what it is called but the Muslims don't call their Fridays off a Sabbath like the Jews do for their Saturdays off.
     
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