N.T. Wright on sin

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Thomas, Dec 16, 2019.

  1. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    82
    I would say it's best to wait and see :)
    It's enough for me to know that I will exist in some shape or form after death.
    Natutrally, I wish for a blessed existence in this life and the next.
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,190
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    Can't beat that.

    I would say, if we depart this life and enter an eschatalogical condition outside of time and space, there is no 'until'? Just thinking aloud.
     
  3. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    540
    Ok. Good point.

    Some religions do not believe in 'life after death'. However Christianity seems to be one that does. Unless there is a sort of stasis of the soul between death and resurrection of the body?
     
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    540
    I can't find a way to accept resurrection of the body. The timelessness of any condition after death does help explain. But as you said, who knows?
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    20,718
    Likes Received:
    1,405
    Who knows is awesome and refreshing y'all!

    As described many times the reason I rejected my religious upbringing as a kid and many times as an adult is all the people who "knew", all the thumpers who told us you are going to hell if you do that and how we'll see our relatives or dogs in heaven...

    Who knows suits me fine.
     
    Beautiful and RJM Corbet like this.
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,190
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    What about His body?
     
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    540
    The resurrection of The Christ.

    The general resurrection of all the dead at the parousia (I think it's called) would mean standing room only on the poor planet Earth.

    The Resurrection of 'a' body -- a spiritual body in a spiritual dimension -- would work? Unlike the Nicene Creed, The Apostles Creed doesn't mention baptism for the forgiveness of original sin. I have a problem with baptism taking away original sin.

    Otherwise I'm fine with Apostles Creed.
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,190
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    I think something along those lines. Remembering that the body in question would be incorruptible, we're talking of a non-contingent cosmos, so a different order of body altogether.
     
    RJM Corbet likes this.
  9. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,159
    Likes Received:
    498
    I like this take a lot, it makes sense to me and it is aesthetic in a way.

    This is where it gets somewhat murky for me. Where we do not possess, we do not have ownership, and thus we do not have immediate responsibility or agency over the fruit. Or am I reading too much into this?

    It might RJMs comments. And en exchange Thomas and I hade years ago, if I remember correctly, concerning secular politics having had it's chance. Or something to that effect.

    My limitations concerning faith is a lack of understanding of how to integrate the divine into our society in a practical way. In my prejudice I see a praying and hoping for the best attitude in favor of actively working towards what we understand right now to be the best. A flawd strategy itself, but, like democracy, superior to all other.

    If I made to much out of nothing, I would love to hear more on this in another thread!
     
    StevePame and RJM Corbet like this.
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,190
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    I'd say where we seek to possess is to claim agency (if I read you right), and in so doing determine and direct things according to a subjective and momentary good?

    A definition of agency offers:
    'Individual agency is when a person acts on his/her own behalf, whereas proxy agency is when an individual acts on behalf of someone else'

    So I see our Biblical relation as very much the proxy.

    The two should go hand-in-hand, although of course there will be disputes when 'what we understand right now to be the best' might not be the best at all, from either side of the divide.
     
  11. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    540
    Isaac Asimov 'I Robot' where a robot has to decide whether to save either a drowning woman or her baby from a car in a river -- the robot's logic saves the baby.

    The thing is can we know what is best in the finality of existence? If I am suffering -- if any creature is suffering -- perhaps that is to the good of the whole? Perhaps it is to my own good, in the finality?

    Who knows?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  12. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    540
    So do I tell my children that I give myself and my whole being to random merciless chance, or into the hands of 'One' higher and wisdom infinitely greater than my own?
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    20,718
    Likes Received:
    1,405
    Why not the truth?
     
  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    540
    Beautiful likes this.
  15. Beautiful

    Beautiful Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    13
    Beautiful thread, wise people, wise knowledge...my favorite from the main text was:

    When humans sin, they hand to non-divine forces a power and authority that those forces were never supposed to have.
     
  16. marceltr

    marceltr New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    1
    I think its not true.
     
  17. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    41
    What's not true?
     

Share This Page