Without tradition

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by KnowSelf, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Without tradition, Biblical or otherwise, would religion exist today?
     
  2. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Yes.
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Difficult to call.

    Certainly there is that which is called 'personal religion', one's own beliefs, informed by one's own experience.

    But if you're talking The Religions, founded on Received or Revealed Doctrines, then the Tradition comes first, then the Scripture.

    Same, really, in any endeavour. Philosophy, physics, mathematics — 'tradition' is the the transmission of data from person to person, generation to generation.

    Prof Huston Smith called Tradition 'the winnowed wisdom of the human race'. I like this comment he had:
    "... but I don't rely solely or even primarily on my own initiative here (for his vision of the cosmos). The chief reason I accept it is that it conforms to "the winnowed wisdom of the human race," as I like to think of the enduring religions in their convergent metaphysical claims. The word wisdom needs to be qualified, though. Not everything in the 'wisdom traditions" is wise. Modern science has retired their cosmologies; and their social formulae – master/slave, gender relations, and the like – must constantly be reviewed in the light of historical changes and our continuing search for justice. It is their convergent vision of ultimate reality, the Big Picture, that impresses me more than any of the alternatives that modernity has produced."
    The Houston Smith Reader.
     
  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Idk, it seems to me some if the tradition came first, but most of it was derived around scripture.

    Scripture may have recorded the first instance of something, but it was yet to be tradition.

    Or scripture reported an event and then a whole passel of tradition was built around that event over the centuries.
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Well the tradition is always a fluid thing, but I'm talking of sources here, not just later doctrinal developments.

    Christianity was a practice, 'a way', before the first texts were written. Same with all religions, I would have thought.

    Scripture is a means of 'passing on', and Tradition determines what is to be passed on.

    In Christianity we can see there was a visible tradition before there was either a visible church or visible scripture.

    As I understand it, nothing of Buddhism was written down for about 400 years, or rather, the earliest Buddhist texts we have are 400 years later ... ?

    But the scribe was already part of the tradition.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Agreed, but what for many as tradition today has little to do with what was tradition two hundred years ago, fawgettabout two thousand.
     
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  7. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    But that doesn't negate the principle ...

    And general I'm with Smith, to repeat the above: "It is their convergent vision of ultimate reality, the Big Picture, that impresses me more than any of the alternatives that modernity has produced."
     
  8. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Tradition; most people recognize Dec. 25 as the birth of Jesus, but they moved the birthdate of Christ out of convenience, in disregard for accuracy. December 25 is a tradition the real birth of Christ is whatever?

    Tradition-repeated celebration or notable event passed down for generations continued practice. Should we question or disagree with tradition? By the same token, is tradition and God the same thing? Is tradition necessary?
     
  9. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Tradition helps to remember
     
  10. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    religion came about as a group dedicated followers practicing tradition
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Well they never knew it, so could hardly move it?

    Don't let one aspect of tradition define the whole thing.


    Well that's what tradition is?

    We should certainly question, but agree or disagree depends on evidence and interpretation of the element under discussion.

    No.

    Absolutely. Anything you've every learned that has been passed on to you ... that's tradition.
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Tradition is bullying from dead people.
     
  13. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    How do you figure?
     
  14. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    I wish to rephrase; the act of worshipping God may be traditional
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Tongue in cheek joking but it is the past imposing expectations...

    The way I was taught....the way gradma did it...
     
  16. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    We accept stuff from our leaders without question
     
  17. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    You must know a lot more docile people than I do.
     
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  18. marceltr

    marceltr Member

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    Interesting suggestion.
     
  19. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    True. Creed (and consequently faith) is often a cultural matter.
    Some people accept that which the majority of their tribe or nation follow, not paying particular attention to its roots or tenets.
    Others may sincerely seek what is likely to be "the truth" about the Divine.

    We are all distracted by this worldly life. We get "too busy" to think about when we are going to die, as we most surely will one day. It comes sooner than we might imagine.
     
  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Still, this is what's happening: Evangelicals for Trump
    https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/11/donald-trump-evangelical-christians-cyrus-king?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE=#aoh=15789956697995&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/11/donald-trump-evangelical-christians-cyrus-king


    Before the end of 2016 there was little in Donald Trump’s life, or frequently offensive political campaign, to suggest that as president he would be hailed as God’s appointee on Earth, be beloved by born-again Christians, or compared to a biblical king.

    Yet that is exactly what has happened in the three years since Trump took office ...


    5472.jpg

    Praying over Trump
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020

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