Without tradition

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by KnowSelf, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Ah, gotcha. I was talking Tradition in its religious aspect, crossed wires there ...
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    and immediately I change the channel, leave the discussion,.change subject...
    and their denomination/sect/subgroup is the one and only one that has it right.

    And low and behold many of them are so blessed to have been born into the family that is members of that very group

    Interesting stuff it is!
     
  3. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    ahh..sarcasm
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I suppose in some areas where people are like that about everything, but generally it's a bit of a stereotype ... In my experience there's far more interreligious dialogue, communication and participation going on than some might realise ...
     
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  5. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Scripture first or tradition first? It is a false dichotomy in my opinion.

    It's really a two-way street.

    For example, when Paul recounts the meal partaken by Jesus and his disciples, he places the bread before the wine - just as Qumran texts do (1QSa 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 11.23-25). So is he receiving this order - bread first, wine second - from Qumran texts? From the disciples? From the Lord? From John the Baptist and his disciples? Are they all getting this order from Qumran texts? Nobody knows!

    Paul does not say how he "received" it from the Lord since he never met him. This order - bread first, wine second - is later picked up by Mark and Matthew.
     
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  6. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Isn’t it said Muhammad had over 50 scribes in Mecca? And that he would verify what they had memorized by having them recite verses back to him?

    I need to check my sources . . .
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    No, not sarcasm...are you saying your post that I was responding to was sarcasm?
     
  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Paul is in a way responsible for establishing the early church as a social organisation and already there have to be social agreements and mores and rules laid down about how and what to believe and how to respond.

    And it is where I already begin to diverge from the whole social aspect of religion. I am not a social animal. Where religion becomes too social, in fact it starts to push me away.
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    ah....and Judas got the bread but not the wine....the substance/literal, but not the essence/spirit(s)...
    . In a way? You and millions of others may not have heard had it not been for Paul,.eh?
     
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  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Of course. But some people do not like the social 'togetherness'.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  11. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    "Far from the madding crowd" eh? ;)
    I'm probably somewhere in the middle. I like giving and receiving, but often struggle
    and withdraw for a time.
    I think it's that time of year for me .. January brrr!
     
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  12. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Oh yes! I wish I could just hibernate like a bear for a few months, lol
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    It's an interesting question ... certainly Paul had a huge impact, but the church at large was there, some of his letters are addressed to communities not of his founding. He founded Corinth, but not Ephesus, and the churches in Rome, Antioch, Alexandria and Damascus, for example, were founded by others.
     
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  14. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    I get where you're coming from, I'm the same, possibly for different reasons.

    But I am always conscious of 'spiritual pride' in that aspect of myself. The pew can be a tough test of one's love of neighbour. (The convent/monastery is by far away the toughest.)

    I was looking online for a reference and a link took me back here to a conversation in 2006!
    Me: "There were many issues I had with Catholicism, aspects of its history, a negative view of the world and the body ... I could not stand the 'happy clappy' Novus Ordo ... and my pew fellows seemed a far cry from God's chosen people"
     
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  15. Truthseeker9

    Truthseeker9 Member

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    Here's the history of the Qur'an according to Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran

    Some scholars since the 1970s have apparently questioned everything. I think they go to far, I had not heard their version before now. I believe the version that the Qur'an was collected under Uthman.
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Church is where I learned to hug.

    Stood at the door as a greeter welcoming and receiving hugs sort of sheepishly, preferring handshakes or a simple head nodding hello. Overtime love the connection I hug provided. And as people approached I open my arms if they held out their hand I shook it but if they entered I gave him a hug. Young, old, male, female, gay, straight, abled, in a wheelchair it didn't matter, if they wanted a hug I gave him all I could. They say you need 3 hugs a day for maintenance, 7 for growth. I grew a lot as a greeter, LOL 20 second hug start your body getting oxytocin the love enzyme no, I am a social animal
     
  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Yeah, well I don't do that. It turns me away. I go to the church to pay respects to God, not for the social stuff. Each to his own, lol
     
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  18. Beautiful

    Beautiful Member

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    God is not in the mosques, churches, or temples...obviously.

    "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these my bretheren, ye did it not to me."
     
  19. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    No .. not literally.
    But speaking figuratively, He is. He's not in corrupt market places, that's for sure.
     
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  20. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Funny ... Jesus had a lot more respect for such places than you do ... obviously.
     

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