Theory, you, I, life is perfect.

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by KnowSelf, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    I a section of time and space having no influence from the past or future, life is perfect in as much as it can be. Humans are forms of life therefore we are also perfect within any given section of time and space having no past or future to compare with, only this time and space. How can this not be any other way. Life is perfect, perfect, perfect
     
  2. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Whatever is in present tense is perfect by no other comparison
     
  3. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    The next time I'm sitting with parents just outside the hospital room where their daughter lies dying because of a brain tumor, how about I call you and you tell them that. We'll see how that goes over.
     
  4. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Perhaps I look at life differently than you, no harm in that is there?
     
  5. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    I can only answer for myself, I may not conform to your opinion, but then again it is my nature to think alone.
     
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  6. Craz

    Craz Active Member

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    I have no doubt that you would offer sincere compassion for the pain the people in @RabbiO 's post, and do it perfectly.
    If not, then you are not human.
    Also, everybody thinks alone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    No, sorry, that's wrong. We, and everything, change the future every moment, sometimes incrementally, sometimes in big steps.

    That's an unproven assumption, a statement of faith, if you will, and there are many compelling arguments and much evidence to suggest it's an erroneous conclusion.

    An assumption founded on the above erroneous assumption.

    Oh dear, again the logic is flawed. We have the past to draw on, in fact this vision of the past, a better time or a Golden Age, underpins many religions, and underpins much populist politics, you're own back-yard is founded on it.

    How can you not see the suffering in the world?

    The dignity of the human and nature is one thing, but perfection ... no.

    If, say, this given moment is perfect, and things change, then every other moment must be less than perfect. It could only continue to be perfect if it continued without change or movement.
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Its a perfect brain tumor....sheesh
     
  9. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Ok, you're not getting what I am trying to say. Like I said in theory without emotional thinking, all states of existence is perfect by the nature being in selected times and circumstances because there is no comparison otherwise to gauge imperfection.

    Perhaps looking at pure data with nothing to compare it with that data is perfect until proven otherwise even if the data is incorrect or corrupt. Whatever we experience is perfect until proven otherwise by comparison even if we disagree it is the only thing we know and understand in that moment without reference to previous experiences.

    Adjective perfect: Finished, completed, full complete, entire. In a single moment it is full and complete and all things existing in that moment are complete for that moment's sake.It cannot be any other way.

    As far as the brain tumor the condition is perfect according the circumstances in which it exists.
     
  10. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    There are a couple of possibilities. One possibility is that people do get what you’re trying to say and reject it - for reasons such as Thomas has presented. Another possibility is that no matter how good or bad the idea is that you are trying to present, you lack the skill to articulate that idea in any meaningful way.
     
  11. Beautiful

    Beautiful Active Member

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    I get what you have said :) Its so simple, and meaningful, and it is the true understanding.
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I get it now.

    You are saying when you don't have anything to compare it to...in any given moment everything is perfect as it is.

    But when you compare it to one second later or before....it becomes an inconsequential observation

    Err, yay!?!?
     
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  13. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    I understand what @KnowSelf means: Everything is exactly how it's meant to be in God's eyes. We're getting exactly what we need by being here. Even suffering is part of God's plan?

    We cannot know the reason for suffering, but often even on the surface it may make us better and more sympathetic people in this world and may be of soul benefit that brings us closer to God.

    When Mother Theresa said "Suffering can be holy" Christopher Hitchens and the new atheists called her evil. I understand what she meant.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
  14. Beautiful

    Beautiful Active Member

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    Past actions have consequences in the present and future. This is the underlying principle by which we measure reality in our daily lives. Suffering as a law of nature needs to exist for this reality to exist. There is no way as to where one can glitch the system. The ultimate result of an equation lies in all the steps which came before it which verify it. An error in the steps makes the whole equation wrong.

    But all suffering is unnecessary, not needed, only a result of bad steps in the equation which we all had a part in. this means: born of out karma
     
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Then what was the Buddha banging on about?

    Why did Christ heal if the afflicted were in the state they were supposed to be in?

    If everything is perfect and as it should be, then such voices were deluding themselves and others, surely?
     
  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Who knows? Perhaps it literally led to the encounter with Christ?

    Christ first forgave sin, then healed the leper. It's unlikely anyone healed by Christ ever forgot the purifying experience.

    "Take up your cross and follow me."

    Anyway, if the argument goes on it leads to: "If there's a God and God is good, why do babies get leukaemia?"

    As far as I understand the Buddha was saying suffering is caused by desire -- ie. the desire for things to be different? Acceptance.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    That stems from an erroneous view of the world, not God.
     
  18. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Thank you for thinking
     
  19. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Desire, or craving.

    In one succinct teaching: "the craving for sensual pleasure, the craving for becoming, the craving for non-becoming". There are more elaborate versions of this teaching...
     
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  20. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    In psychological terms, this kind of reality would be suffering from borderline personality disorder, engaging in self-harming behavior in order to feel itself, to feel real?

    What a perfectly Gnostic view :)
     

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