CORONA VIRUS

Discussion in 'Health' started by RJM Corbet, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I wonder why?
     
  2. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    As a vegetarian, I applaud your concern about factory farms and modern industrialized slaughterhouses, and want to mention that these also exist in my central European country, where also pork is the preferred meat, and cat meat is sometimes consumed in rural areas (called "fake rabbit").

    Can we also beat up on the Norvegians please for the invention of a fish preserve called "lutefisk"? That stuff is truly pungent and eye-watering, and can't be sanitary to eat!People get ill just from the smell.
     
  3. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Established Member

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    Yes, I know. Not on the same scale as what's going on in China though.
    Unfortunately, factory farming is a growing trend in many countries.
    I applaud the progress that the EU has made in this regard.
    eg. the banning of battery chickens

    I also believe that there is a limit to how long pigs can be caged.
    Some people just don't care.
     
  4. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Established Member

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    Probably my fault .. I think it's back on topic.
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, I keep hearing about the after-effects, often chronic and quite debilitating, so once again COVID is showing itself to be far worse than flu.
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    As many countries of the world go into an inevitable recession, once again it appears that the UK is suffering a more severe decline than many.

    There are three main causes:
    ONE: A combination of the Prime Minister's libertarian ideology, his self-image as a new Churchill, and his inability to focus on detail and a subsequent dependence upon others to tell him what to do.

    Disinclined to actually do anything (other than be seen to be doing the popular thing), the UK was late into lockdown, and when the lockdown was triggered it was incremental and half-hearted. When the 'herd-immunity' policy was shown to be potentially disastrous, we went into a midway position — making a lot of noise about lockdown, whilst the lockdown itself was largely advisory, rather than mandatory — so we were slow on two counts: the first to actually lockdown, and the second to effectively lockdown once it was declared.

    TWO: This stems from the first: Having staggered into lockdown, as a result of wasted opportunities, wasted resources and profiteering, we have failed to get a grip of the situation and are now staggering in and out of local lockdowns.

    Meanwhile, and the evidence is there for anyone who bothers to look, the govt. saw the requirement for 'track-and-trace' — the fundamental means of controlling the pandemic — as a bonanza for British private companies. Millions have been wasted on private-company friends-of-govt PPP supply chain which has delivered sub-standard goods, if it has delivered at all.

    Councils and healthcare authorities who already had functioning and effective regional t&t were ignored, and denied access to meaningful data.

    The govt has favoured private companies like Serco with multi-million pound t&t contracts even though they have no experience nor track record in t&t. The newly-employed are speaking of non-existent or shambolic training; 1-hour training classes deemed sufficient for the task; sitting around all day waiting for contact details.

    Serco has so far managed a less-than-20% success rate in t&t, whereas the hamstrung existing council and healthcare systems are tracking at over 80%.

    Govt declined t&t software from the big players in favour of a superior, domestic product. To date, no effective t&t homegrown software exists. Trials were cut short when the much lauded software provided to be insecure and ineffective.

    THREE: The bitter pill

    This will be the hardest fact for the Brits to swallow. We are suffering a recession more than any other European country other than Spain, because our GDP is significantly more dependent on the service industries — we are no longer a manufacturing or construction economy – and the service sector relies heavily on hospitality and the leisure industries, which have taken a significantly harder hit because of ongoing mismanagement throughout the pandemic.

    Add to this the uncertainty of Brexit, and the future is looking bleak.

    We must stop blaming the pandemic as the sole cause of our ills. The pandemic showed us ill-prepared, ill-equipped and ill-led.
     
  7. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Established Member

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    The taller you are, the harder you fall :)
     
  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    We do have friends, who have similar interests.
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    It looks like corona not only kills those who are compromised...but has the capacity to create compromised individuals.....so if it doesn't get you the first time it may the second or third a decade.later.

    I see reports now that think that this may be worse than 1918...
     
  10. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Staff Member

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    I've also heard that it effects different racial/ethnic groups disproportionately as well as different "statuses" (the wealthier one is, the "better" one ends up.)

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Yeah the debate continues on that. Are blacks predisposed or are does our centuries old racial divide (salaries, concentraiion, inner city vs suburbia, abiltty to distance) have the most impact.

    They are continuing to learn about this bug...the current most scary aspect is the 90 day average immunity...that doesn't bode well for vacines and they are taking other avenues toward treatment....AND the long term effects...it appears this weakens our immune system, lungs and organs so if we aren't on the danger list and it doesn't kill us the first time, it leaves issues, which increases its likelihood of being a more major issue the second, third or tenth time we get it...even if the first go around we were asymptomatic...it is doing us dirty on the inside.

    remember the common cold is an early version of the corona virus....and it still comes around...
     
  12. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Established Member

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    Yes, and it's particularly dangerous for the elderly. Viruses generally are, but like bad storms, they can have a name.
    In this case, covid.
     
  13. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Staff Member

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    This was the latest death toll in the United/"United" States linked to coronavirus pandemic: 195,958

    I need some :kitty: time!

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Yes but you have to look at deaths per million, not deaths overall of people who have previously tested positive for covid, and the US is a very big country.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

    New covid restrictions today coming into force here in the UK. Economic devastation to the travel and tourist and hospitality industries, and the small coffee shops and other main street shops and restaurants etc, that depend on people coming into the centre of the towns. The furlough and small business support schemes have ended now. Government can't go on paying people to stay at home. Those folks are permanently out of business and the business is not coming back.

    It feels like all that really matters is being taken away by covid. As I say it's not overall deaths but deaths per million that is relevant.

    In order to save a few extra deaths (per million) amongst retired people they're taking out the working age who work to support them. And I speak as a retired person myself although I am still working.

    We can't keep stopping the young from living to save a few extra deaths per million amongst the old I'm afraid. There's going to be a backlash reaction. Imo

    Politicians have to do what is seem to be right, to keep their positions. It's making me angry but I have to try not to get angry.

    The original lockdown was to give the health services time to prepare ventilators and so on, and everybody was very co-operative about it. But they cannot keep continuing to stop young people from living their lives to save a few extra deaths per million among the elderly.

    And in the meantime people are not getting their proper cancer treatment and necessary early diagnosis, etc.

    There is already resentment amongst the young about having to support such a large and growing elderly population of retired people, while they can't afford to buy homes for themselves, unless they work two jobs.

    Covid panic is doing nothing to help; it's only widening the gap, I'm afraid.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020 at 8:02 AM
  15. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    In the UK 626 deaths per million to date. That is one six hundredth of a percent? And remember it is recorded as a 'death of a person who previously tested positive for covid, within the last X number of days.'

    So doesn't necessarily mean that person died from covid. Could have been hit by a bus, or taken by one of the other conditions which elderly people often have?

    US slightly less at 597 deaths per million of people who previously tested positive for covid.

    Highest at the moment is Peru with 966 deaths per million.
     
  16. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Established Member

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    it feels a bit like that to me, too..

    I don't think that any govt. wants increasing unemployment. They are concerned about
    the "R" value and are worried about losing control.

    It might look like that from the stats, but think about the point above..

    Yes, things are not back to 'normal' yet .. they are still trying to catch up.
    ..plus clinics have revised covid policies etc.

    Yes .. cost of housing is a very serious issue, particularly in 'the south' where house prices are WAY too high.
    High unemployment is nothing new for those of us from the Midlands to Scotland i.e. the north
    It certainly is a serious problem, but youth unemployment has not yet reached the level of many other European nations.
    I guess we should be thankful for that..
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020 at 10:56 AM
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  17. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Established Member

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    Yes .. so far so good [ I'm sure those that are grieving don't see it as "good" ]
    The object is to keep it from going out of control.
    I think the scientists should be looking at the death rate, rather than 'tested positive stats' for example.
    death rate is increasing atm, but stats lag what is really going on.
    Nevertheless, as in managing economies, panic only makes things worse.
     
    RJM Corbet likes this.
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Fear not ...

    'Operation Moonshot' is the cornerstone of the Govt response to COVID-19.

    Moonshot is the latest plan to provide rapid turnaround tests. Estimated to cost more than £100 billion to deliver – based on technology that does not as yet exist.

    With costs approaching £2,000 for every man, woman, and child in the country, the Govt so far refuses to provide information on who made the decision to spend this sum, or who they are spending it with.

    What is known is that Dido Harding, responsible for the failing Test & Trace programme, has revealed that even if these tests become available, they will not be free. Rather, taxpayers who have paid for Moonshot will then have to buy their tests.

    So far what the Govt has been obliged to declare (by law) is that Serco, Deloitte and G4S, all three companies having disturbing track records of bullying, mismanagement and what would, in any other circumstance, be fraud, stand to profit by this Moonshot windfall.

    This is going ahead with a complete absence of any Parliamentary scrutiny of a decision to invest £100 billion in what, if this administration's track record so far is anything to go by, a pie-in-the-sky project.

    Investments so far — £millions spent on PPE from near non-existent companies such as pest-controller, a web design agency and a confectionary firm, have produced materials, when any have been actually delivered, that are unfit for use, or not actually required. These deals reek of cronyism.

    All this will kick in at the turn of the year when Brexit will make its presence felt as the economy goes into sharp decline.

    My feeling is the main players will then disappear over the horizon to their tax-exempt hideaways as unseen investors asset-strip the UK and we slide into the economy of a third-world banana republic.
     
  19. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Established Member

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    Makes no sense to me..

    Firstly:-
    . . . the programme "focuses on only one part of the problem, testing, and says nothing about what will happen to those found positive, a particular concern given the low proportion of those who do adhere to advice to isolate—in part because of the lack of support they are offered."

    Secondly:-
    Who is profiting from this? The whole nation?
    ..or more likely, the companies who are urging govt. to spend in this way?

    How sad :(
    .. I know how to thwart covid .. let's spend trillions and build bigger airports and mega-speed rail .. NOT!
     
  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    But the honest truth is: if I am old or vulnerable and I don't want to get covid, I can stay at home and order my stuff.

    No one is forcing me to go out and use public transport, etc. and I can't expect young and working age people to stop their lives because of me.

    I'm speaking as a person in the vulnerable age group
     

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