COVID catastrophe

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Thomas, Aug 17, 2020.

  1. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Plain ordinary common sense.
    I do sympathise with your loss. I hope they are safe with the angels now and free from earthly suffering.

    But now you effectively see fit to block hospitals and doctors from treating all the other serious medical conditions that exist, while putting many tens of thousands of people out of work, permanently and rising everyday?

    I have responded to you 'out of courtesy'. but I really have no more to say. I have already repeated myself several times and now want to step out of this discussion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Our lockdown was nowhere near as severe as other countries, and yet their recovery is so much better. Why?

    Perhaps you should, it seems to me that without any benchmark, how can one offer meaningful observations about this one?
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    No, you can't.
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    It is a permanent feature. Until there's a vaccine, it's a permanent threat. Like TB and polio, it will always be there.

    The real catastrophe is the inept management of the situation by the government, that's the point I am trying to make. And the degree of graft that's going on at the moment under the cover of COVID. Test & Trace is fundamental to the solution, and our programme has failed miserably, whereas abroad it's proving very successful.

    If the rest of Europe was in the same boat as us, then I'd say it is what it is, but by every comparison, we've done really badly.

    We, like the US, have elected a populist leader on a one-ticket (essentially racist) campaign, and it's now emerging that he's actually not up to the job of running a country. To quote Michelle Obama: 'he's in over his head'.

    That's where the problem lies. Getting everybody back to work will be just fiddling while Rome burns.
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    And yet not one country in the world is following this plain ordinary common sense?
     
  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    The answer is not straightforward.
    You are very fond of blaming politicians, but perhaps you should consider
    who voted for them and why?

    The Labour party got it wrong on brexit. They invited Polish nationals to come
    and work in the UK and they came at an unsustainable rate. [ I like the Polish, btw ]
    The Conservatives have been in power ever since.

    As I already suggested, the taller you are, the harder you fall.
    Why should UK have low unemployment, whilst many other European countries are
    suffering from high unemployment?

    You're perception of "why?" is flawed. No two nations are the same.
    It's not just about govt.
    What I think about govts. who may be in power, has little to do with people
    dying from covid pandemic.
    Suggesting that "the death rate could have been a lot lower if.." is a hypothetical.
    It's a pure guess. Yes, public services have been run-down [ gone much too far ]
    Yes, with hindsight they might have made better decisions.
    Would it make much difference to the final death toll?
    I doubt it .. if's and but's don't miraculously change how people live their lives.
    Look at the roads. They are often chock-a-block. That's UK .. I don't like it. It's the people, no?

    [eg. density of pop. and lifestyle ]
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    No, indeed it's not.

    Really, I'm not. I wish we had politicians take a leaf from the French, German or NZ playbook.

    That falls into the "some of my best friends are black" bracket.

    Yes, we Brits are special ...

    OK, so it's all our fault. The government are blameless, hardworking, honest, doing the best they can ... :rolleyes:
     
  8. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Nobody is blameless.
    At least we haven't got Trump.
    Is Boris a billionaire without a good academic education? I think not.

    I think that we should be thankful for what we've got.
    Politicians aren't magicians .. they can't make nations rich with a magic wand.
    There has to be a balance.
    Fortunately, we have a democracy and the pendulum swings to and fro..
     
  9. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    Out of genuine curiosity: by that token, the US should be thankful for Trump because he isn't Kim Jong-Un?
     
  10. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    No need to answer this one, but you seem to have put some words in my mouth...

    I wrote to you not because of your position, but how you expressed it, I felt you made light out of something serious. I also expressed myself poorly and it may seem as if I I have lost someone personally, which I have not, I'm only surrounded by loss and grief.

    Secondly, >I< don't see anything fit. I trust in the medical community far more than I do in myself, or even you, on the topic of infections diseases. The guidelines have been set and there will be a lot of direct and indirect tragedy out of this pandemic.
     
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  11. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    You can't stop the rest of the people LIVING
     
  12. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Yes, absolutely .. I'm not a Trump hater, but I'm wary of rich people.
    Most religions warn us about the dangers of being rich.
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Of course not .. but we shouldn't expect to return to the so-called "normality" before the lockdown.
    That is actually a GOOD thing. "normality" was/is on course for environmental destruction.
    eg. the increasing consumption of fossil fuels
     
  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    No. You can't make the people of the world live on your terms. Covid is not an opportunity for social engineering. There is a huge reaction building, never mind what big city newspapers and the woke media influencers say. (Not you @muhammad_isa)

    You heard it here first. Nevermind ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  15. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I don't blame you for feeling "sore" ..
    I know that a lot of people are losing their jobs due to covid.
    It is covid that started the ball rolling i.e. lockdown

    What aren't you happy with?
    Naturally, the hospitals are behind with cancer treatments etc. .. inevitable as resources were diverted.
    ..as far as I'm aware, they are doing their best to get back on track.
    What is the govt. doing wrong? Which sectors of the economy do you refer to?

    Are you referring to the travel sector?
    Nothing goes on for ever .. there is always change.
    What were they thinking? Expansion of Heathrow airport when we've known
    for decades that the world is heading for climate disaster?
    I agree with the young Swedish girl. It's about time we took it seriously.
    I don't see it as "social engineering" .. it is a natural consequence of
    necessary quarantine policies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
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  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Would you like to tell the roughly 150 000 Britons now permanently out of work (or soon to be out of work) exactly who is benefiting from their sacrifice?

    I'm using the rough figure from an article quoted in one of these threads. So please don't fight me on exact numbers.

    https://www.euronews.com/2020/07/24...e-are-slashing-their-workforces-because-of-co

    What more is there to say, that hasn't been said already?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  17. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    The people not getting sick from corvid.
     
  18. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    You think that's a good trade?

    EDIT
    It's the pivot of the whole global discussion really I suppose?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Well, it seems to me that whatever RJM, muhammad-isa or I think, this pandemic is not going to get settled soon, not while there's such a golden opportunity to make money, as lucrative contracts go to friends and associates without having to explain the grounds of the award to oversight committees and without having to go through the tiresome legalities of competitive tendering.

    The latest: Know of the recent U-turn-then-U-turn again over exam results?

    It turns out that Public First, a firm of 'policy and research specialists', was awarded an £840,000 contract by OfQual, the office responsible for awarding exam results, to assist them managing how the results were to be awarded. As usual, the contract was awarded without an open tender for the work. The company is run by James Frayne (longtime associate of Dominic Cummings) and Rachel Wolf (former Gove advisor).

    (Competitive tendering has been suspended under emergency regulations that permit 'urgent Covid-related services' to be quickly commissioned.)

    An investigation has discovered that a portion of the work was not related to the exam question, but to Brexit.

    Prof Liz David-Barrett, Director of the Centre for the Study of Corruption at the University of Sussex, explained that it was one rule for government and another for everyone else. "From what is currently known, it seems possible that the Covid crisis may have been exploited to avoid a competitive process and award a contract to a favoured crony rather than letting companies compete for it. If so, using Covid as a cover for cronyism is clearly beyond the pale."
     
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  20. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    And there's more ...

    According to Reuters, Liz Truss, UK Trade Minister has reclassified recent meetings with a pro-hard Brexit think tank as personal discussions, removing them from the public record and sparking opposition allegations that she wants to conceal their influence on public policy.

    The Government rules require meetings with external organisations that discuss official business to be declared. The rules are designed to ensure integrity, transparency and honesty in public office. Liz Truss seems to be evading the rules, in two private meetings with The Institute of Economic Affairs, one of Britain’s most influential right-leaning think tanks. It argued strongly for a clean break from the European Union.

    Although classified as 'personal meetings', The Department for International Trade declined to comment when asked how a meeting on trade and investment with a pro-active think tank could be considered a personal meeting.
     
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