COVID catastrophe

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Thomas, Aug 17, 2020.

  1. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Check it out. Check the facts. I never said they were negligent. And I'm not talking about the 'peak' for which the whole panic was to prepare and which is now long behind us.
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Are they?

    Really?
     
  3. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Yes. And yes. Check it out. Correct me if I'm wrong
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    No, I don't think it did.
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    I tried, can't find the data.
     
  6. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Check Devon Torbay. They are ghost hospitals. You can't get near them. Same for doctors surgeries too of course.

    EDIT
    Unless you are literally weeping in pain
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    It's not far right it's ordinary normal people living on the street -- or a big fat benefits slag -- victimising their neighbours and their children for being Polish, There's no sugar on the pill
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  8. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    As I wrote:
     
  9. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    I'll assume that the numbers are very hypothetical.
    You are saying that if people are saying that the immigration is unsustainable then it is unsustainable?
    And unsustainable here is referring to job and living opportunists?

    I would say that the community isn't always very well informed and some rather strange ideas might grow and circulate in it.
    Is there any way to actually quantify what is a sustainable immigration, nationally and locally?
     
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  10. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I expect so..
    I don't see why it's so hard to understand.
    Scarce housing resources being stretched farther.
    Increase in rents .. decrease in wages due to the difference in economies.
    One poorer nation suddenly able to work in a richer one .. bla bla

    I realise that the intention is to even out the differences between nations,
    which is now beginning to happen.
    Meanwhile, many people felt hard done by.

    I remember the Labour govt. began to accuse the long-term-unemployed / sick
    of being liars, and decreased their benefits. They said that the British didn't want to work, saying how the Polish could find jobs and didn't get sick. Many people are still saying it.
    Of course, they didn't discuss how immigrants overcrowded properties,
    sending money back to their families where it was worth more, and travelled back & forth.

    The whole shebang was absurd. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
    I'm not surprised though .. people with money can't understand the plight of the poor. They don't want to .. they only want to keep what THEY have, and don't care how they do it.
    Labour .. Conservative .. they're all the same.
    Money, money, money!
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  11. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    I understand the logic used, but is it measurable? If it isn't measurable it seems like a hard line to draw. If it is measurable I'm sure those figures are well known and used frequently to argue your position. I have never seen them. I would like to understand them. They would be much more convincing then simply saying that it is so.
     
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  12. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    I've done some googling but not found anything yet. Only an article mentioning that Torbay Hospital was somewhat of a hotspot for the corona virus. Could you give me a link or some more keywords to try?
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Well, if you are really interested, you can look at an election map and see how the people
    voted in different areas.
    I don't see why there should be less "racists" in London than the north of England, for example

    Some people see anti-immigration as racism. That's definetely wrong!
    I know many Asians who complained about the Polish taking "their jobs"

    Racism is hating people because they aren't "a native" or have a different religion etc.
    No .. the apparent racism of brexit is not racism per se, but is about perceived loss of wealth.

    It's not rocket science. When there's plenty to go round, most of us can live happily side-by-side.
    ..when there isn't..
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    That isn't the situation in the US... the surgeons I've had are all busy and are now taking elective surgery again

    Lol, before my sureries I knew over a dozen people who work as nurses, doctors, EMTs, transporters in half a dozen within 45 minutes of my house, during the past two years of health issues those numbers more than doubled. I obviously don't know about England, or the rest of the US...but that is not the case around here. MY friends are overworked and stressed.
     
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  15. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I know someone whose wife works there. Quite senior, as an area administrator or similar. A broken arm that normally takes four hours to get fixed, was done in 90 minutes, because the hospital is so quiet. In spite of minor injuries units being closed in nearby towns, referring patients to Torbay, to free up staff. I was surprised. I'll look for links.

    EDIT
    https://www.scdhec.gov/infectious-d...-2019-covid-19/hospital-bed-capacity-covid-19

    All I could find at short notice. National figures. Torbay maybe quieter than most at the moment. Anyway it doesn't appear to be startling or frantic.

    Try this? Lots of statistics to wade through:
    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statisti...vailability-and-occupancy/bed-data-overnight/
    It may be a line for you to follow?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    https://www.torbayandsouthdevon.nhs...ic-treated-by-nhs-in-local-partnership-19525/

    Published: 14 August 2020

    "Patients needing urgent surgery are being treated under a new safe service set up rapidly in response to the pandemic by a partnership with the NHS in Torbay and South Devon.

    More than 1,000 operations vital to NHS patients with cancer and other conditions have been carried out on a COVID-19-free site in four months under the enhanced partnership between Torbay and South Devon NHS Foundation Trust and Ramsay Health.

    As the pandemic struck and Torbay Hospital adapted to take COVID-19 patients, Torbay and South Devon NHS Foundation Trust, which runs the hospital, transferred patients and planned surgery within days to the designated COVID-19-free Mount Stuart Hospital in Torquay.

    Emma Brooks, Operational Manager at Mount Stuart for the Trust, relocated at the start of the pandemic to take up the new role. She was joined by about 40 Trust colleagues from 30 locations and a huge range of roles (from IT to surgical) in order to transfer urgent surgery speedily and reduce delay to vulnerable patients.

    She said “I am incredibly proud of what we have achieved, the teams worked hard to ensure that pathways were in place for the safe transfer of patient care.

    “The joint working between the two sites has been fantastic and staff from the Trust have been made to feel extremely welcome. It has been an absolute pleasure to be a part of this partnership and be able to provide urgent care for our local population.”

    This major move, including equipment and staff, has helped mitigate the impact on patients from the pandemic by reducing waiting lists while ensuring that surgery remains safe." etc

    So vital ops have to be done elsewhere. A thousand vital ops in four months for cancer and other conditions sounds a bit thin to me? Anyway ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
  17. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    Well I disagree with every point you made.
    They are, again, your opinions stated as facts.
    And you didn't answer the question I asked which was measurability of something very specific.
    I was specifically not asking about systematic racism in politics because we've already exhausted that topic I think.
     
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  18. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, I'll read through this properly when I have more time!
     
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  19. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Fine .. I can only imagine why :)

    I can only assume the point of asking is to satisfy yourself that my opinions are wrong.
    i.e. that it is not reasonable to object to immigration and that it is indeed racism

    I didn't vote for brexit, but the attitudes of people on both sides of the
    argument seem pretty senseless to me.
    ..but that goes for a lot of things. Poilitics is often divisive and selfish.
    ..while the supporters [ much like a football team ] claim to have the moral
    high ground.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Not if you can offer some evidence to indicate they may be right ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020

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