COVID catastrophe

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Thomas, Aug 17, 2020.

  1. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    A 90 yr old man wasted to nothing by cancer, tested positive in hospital and death put down to covid: just one attested example: a person known. And the issue being: who really trusts the test?
     
  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    This disease which is devastating people's lives in every other way but health, kills only a tiny minotity of those who get it, with the overwhelming majority needing a test to tell them they have it, although they don't get sick or exhibit any symptoms -- and the tests themselves are notoriously unreliable ...
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    I do think it's not the deaths that's the problem – Boris told us that was going to happen and that was inevitable – it hospitals being overwhelmed with COVID patients, which we saw they were in the first round. And while there are plenty who have opinions to the otherwise, it's the front-line workers I listen to and look at; the shell-shocked faces rimmed with red-raw lines from PPE ...

    As for the economy, Britain, supposedly the 6th largest in the world, is doing badly compared to other countries, so I'd say — but this is no more than you'd expect — the crisis is a case of chronic mismanagement by self-serving individuals who are shamelessly profiteering from the pandemic, a fact that I have been bleating about for months, and now is even on the front page of the New York Times.
     
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  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Yes. I don't want to argue. It's difficult for everybody
     
  5. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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  6. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Yes. But is that why we need to ruin our economy and tourist and aviation industries, and spoil the future for young people and put working age people permanently out of work -- and condemn thousands upon thousands of all sorts of cancer and heart sufferers to death, who could be caught and healed in time -- let alone all the pain caused by knee and hip operations which should be happening, people going blind because they can't see a doctor, millions of untreated dental conditions, etc?

    Dying is never easy. Covid is no exception.

    The median age of death is still beyond life expectancy, the vast majority of people still need a test to tell them they've got it, because they don't get sick and don't exhibit symptoms, and someone who has four tests in the same day translates with two positive and two negative. These are not emotional propaganda, but straight facts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  7. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    So many of your points are so completely warped and detached from the shared narrative. They are too many and too bizarre for me to try and argue against. If you, like Contrarian Deist, just assume that all authority are wrong or are lying than sure, what you say must be right. But besides your very questionable moral position: 'letting the minorities die for the sake of the many'; factual statements: 'health-workers are just sitting around doing nothing'; and logical leaps: 'a few people die from it so it's not really an issue', you are straight up saying that your take on the global event is more correct than the medical consensus.

    Also, why not stop stating that you don't want to argue about it, it's not like you've stopped arguing.
     
  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Why not? Why don't you take them point-by-point and contradict them? The shared narrative is exactly where the problem is, imo.

    Now you can leave it, and agree to disagree -- that your 'shared narrative' is not necessarily the only correct and only valid one -- or you can deal with my points as I have made them, and I will take you on, fact by fact, and where I'm wrong I will concede, if you can show that.
    Where did I ever imply that? I said without malice that they are confused and blundering around which is the truth.
    No I said the vulnerable have the right to protect themselves, with full state aid and co-operation, but not to require the rest of society to go to ruin around them
    Of course it's an issue. But the issue is to balance the issues
    I said it several months ago in summer at the time when it actually seemed to be true at Torbay hospital, based on factual accounts by a senior NHS administrator, wife of a colleague whose name I can supply by PM -- and at the time the Daily Mail here was talking about 'tumbleweeds blowing down our hospital corridors'
    Was addressed to @Thomas in context

    (I've no wish to turn discussion into an argument. But I have the right in a dedicated covid thread to state my opinion, and to back it up with source evidence. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and everyone knows it. The next move is yours. If you have a point to make. Otherwise I have nothing more to say)
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
  9. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Truth is I just don't want to talk about covid anymore.

    EDIT
    But I do apologise if I come across ranty about it. I'll say no more from now on, well not unless to respond to posts directed to me personally ... in which case is a bit rude not to respond, imo?

    So sorry everybody, if I've been upsetting people. Sincere apologies.

    Wishing you a pleasant Christmas and a lot of good for 2021
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
  10. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Here in Germany, we get about twice as many deaths as last year this time. Hospitals are understaffed because so many are on sick leave. At least in this corner of the world, there is a massive impact on people's health.

    Article in German, for reference: https://m.dnn.de/Region/Mitteldeutschland/Hohe-Corona-Todeszahlen-Zittau-muss-Leichen-zwischenlagern
     
  11. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    This latest covid outbreak is causing me to think a lot more seriously about it. I do not wish to cause offence or be a thread killer. As @Thomas said it is about the hospitals not being overwhelmed at this stage, and kicking the economic can up the road for now. This is the real debate? Please do not think I am unkind or uncaring for bringing it up.

    My daughter is in the NHS as a third-year university degree midwife, spending a lot of time in hospitals, and so I am aware of the difficulties and danger faced by NHS workers. I am not callous about it. It's not easy. But the wider effects are not easy either, so there is area for debate and departure from the shared narrative, without being regarded as argumentative and obstructive, imo.
     

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