What were they thinking?

Discussion in 'Judaism' started by Miken, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. Miken

    Miken Active Member

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    amazon.com just sent me an email offering a deal on Passover Matzo. Passover is about half a year away and Yom Kippur about to start, on which the rule is not to eat at all.

    PS I am Irish.
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    They are throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks...

    Ps are you saying there are no Jews in Ireland?
     
  3. Miken

    Miken Active Member

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    Judaism in Ireland has a long history and happily one of (mostly) tolerance. Judaism was already well known in Ireland before World War 2, often immigrants from Russian and German controlled regions. During the war there were efforts to help Jewish refugees into Ireland, undercover to preserve the appearance of neutrality. In various unofficial and secret ways Ireland aided the UK in the war effort, including Atlantic weather readings that happened to result in the forecast of 24 hours of clear weather on June 6, 1944. Hating the British was one thing. Being stupid was something else entirely. BTW I am the child of pre-war Irish and English immigrants and my Irish father served in the war against Germany.

    I am old enough to remember Robert Briscoe being elected Lord Mayor of Dublin. I also recall Yogi Berra's classic Yogism about it - Only in America! I loved Yogi's zany off the cuff comments.
     
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  4. Miken

    Miken Active Member

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    So I guess being moved here precludes talking about being Irish or about Yogi Berra.
     
  5. Craz

    Craz Active Member

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    My first Rabbi was Irish, I could say he was my first teacher of compassion.
    One Saturday morning(I was 4 years old) I was out driving with my father, when he suddenly noticed the Rabbi walking by.
    My father ducked for a few seconds until the Rabbi passed.(It was Shabbat and my father was embarrassed since he was not meant to be driving, as you probably know).

    The next morning the Rabbi came to our home and said to my father "I am not here to admonish you for driving on Shabbat, but for dangerous driving".
    The rabbi then gave me a bar of milk chocolate, smiled and left.

    Thanks for the memory @Miken
     
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  6. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    Not at all. Discussions here often drift into other areas. Just that the lounge area is specifically designated for nonreligious and nonpolitical discussion.
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Appears it was.my response that evoked a response which has taken us down another path.

    It appears the turn thou is fitting of the title.

    The number of funny stories that folks have regarding the topic of Jewish Holy days, id quite deep.
     
  8. Miken

    Miken Active Member

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    In mainly Orthodox areas of New York City, my original home town, on Shabbat buses stop at every stop regardless of whether anyone is waiting or getting off. Likewise elevators are set to continually go up and down stopping at every floor. Since the bus or the elevator is going to stop anyway, no work is being done by getting on and off.
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I ran a variety show every year...it started Saturday night at 8pm. There were a few entertainers that always asked to go on late because they and their family couldn't leave tje neighborhood till sundown.. They knew exactly what time sundown was amd how long the drive was to the boundary of their synagogue...
     
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  10. Miken

    Miken Active Member

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    I worked with many Orthodox Jews over the years and as I understand it (maybe wrongly) is that while Shabbat begins at sundown, it does not end until three stars are visible in the sky. This has been standardized as 18 minutes after sundown, I was told. In New York City with its light pollution you might not see any stars all night! The time of sundown BTW was as reported on page 2 of the Daily News.
     
  11. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    The 18 minutes you reference have nothing to do when Shabbat ends. Shabbat candles are lit 18 minutes before sundown. Once those candles are lit Shabbat has begun even though sundown is still some minutes away.
     
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  12. Miken

    Miken Active Member

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    Thank you for that info. Is there a standardized time for the end of Shabbat after sundown? The three stars rule would be very dependent on circumstances.
     
  13. Craz

    Craz Active Member

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    I have heard of these elevators, but never buses.
    @RabbiO can you explain halachically how it is ok to ride on Shabbat?

    and have good fast.
     
  14. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    The short answer is that Shabbat ends 72 minutes after sundown, although there are some, such as those who follow the reasoning of Rabbeinu Tam, who hold to a longer period.

    Do you want more information?
     
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  15. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Actually, in regard to both elevators and public transportation, the answer as to whether it is, in fact, halachically permissible depends upon your posek.
     
  16. Craz

    Craz Active Member

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    So, I understand that to mean that some do and some don't. Thanks.

    Poskim, פוסקים‬) is the term in Jewish law for "decisor"—a legal scholar who decides the Halakha in cases of law where previous authorities are inconclusive or in those situations where no halakhic precedent exists.
     
  17. Miken

    Miken Active Member

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    I do not know where in the world the various participants may live and whether it is sundown yet there. But for everyone who reads this, have an easy fast.
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Leads to yet another question...like lent...isnt it supposed to be a challenge?
     
  19. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Moderator

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    Concerning your question (about fasting): Yom Kippur is supposed to be about introspection. We look at what we've done in the previous year, what we want to do and what we need to do during this new year. Abstaining from all physical activity removes several distractions from the introspection (women/girls used to be required to wear plain white dresses sewn specifically for this particular fast.)

    The only prohibition on fasting is if a person's health is in danger (which presents another challenge [as you can see].)

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
  20. Miken

    Miken Active Member

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    Thank you. I looked up Rabbeinu Tam and discovered the 72 minutes and the 58.5 minutes issues and that led me into times of day for various prayers and practices. Quite interesting really. I was raised Roman Catholic, which has a complex network of rules and practices but nothing as elaborate as this. Pre Vatican II Catholicism was a lot more complicated than present day Catholics realize. Most present day Catholics do not even grasp the full extent of obligations they are supposed to follow now. But that is a topic for a different forum.
     

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