Thoughts on the events in Capitol last week

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Cino, Jan 16, 2021.

  1. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    2,264
    Likes Received:
    995
    A large number of people in a majority of countries are relieved that Trump is all but gone.

    It is terribly unnerving for the rest of the population on this planet to see someone with such obvious and massive psychological issues commanding the most fearsome military apparatus and the administration of the most important economy, I can assure you.

    The damage is considerable and the long-term effects are likely disastrous. Those scenes from your Capitol last week were observed by the entire world.

    It's going to be tough to ask less democratic countries to respect a vote or referendum after the parliament of the world's leading democracy, at the suggestion of a president unwilling to accept the people's will, was invaded by armed insurrectionists with the intent and training to take hostages, who interrupted the elected officials performing their duty to the people.

    That shockwave tore down so much respect world-wide. You have no idea, it seems.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5,582
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    They genuinely believe the vote was rigged, in spite of all challenges losing in the courts.

    Good article IMO
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/magazine/trump-coup.html

    “Thanks to technological capacity and personal talent, Donald Trump lied at a pace perhaps unmatched by any other leader in history. For the most part these were small lies, and their main effect was cumulative. To believe in all of them was to accept the authority of a single man, because to believe in all of them was to disbelieve everything else. Once such personal authority was established, the president could treat everyone else as the liars; he even had the power to turn someone from a trusted adviser into a dishonest scoundrel with a single tweet.

    … In November 2020, reaching millions of lonely minds through social media, Trump told a lie that was dangerously ambitious: that he had won an election that in fact he had lost … It challenged not just evidence but logic: Just how could (and why would) an election have been rigged against a Republican president but not against Republican senators and representatives? Trump had to speak, absurdly, of a “Rigged (for President) Election.”

    The force of a big lie resides in its demand that many other things must be believed or disbelieved. To make sense of a world in which the 2020 presidential election was stolen requires distrust not only of reporters and of experts but also of local, state and federal government institutions, from poll workers to elected officials, Homeland Security and all the way to the Supreme Court. It brings with it, of necessity, a conspiracy theory: Imagine all the people who must have been in on such a plot and all the people who would have had to work on the cover-up.

    … More than 100 representatives doubled down on the big lie. Some, like Matt Gaetz, even added their own flourishes, such as the claim that the mob was led not by Trump’s supporters but by his opponents … A joint statement Cruz issued about the senators’ challenge to the vote nicely captured the post-truth aspect of the whole: It never alleged that there was fraud, only that there were allegations of fraud. Allegations of allegations, allegations all the way down … No fraud is necessary; only allegations that there are allegations of fraud. Truth is to be replaced by spectacle, facts by faith.

    … Informed observers inside and outside government agree that right-wing white supremacism is the greatest terrorist threat to the United States. Gun sales in 2020 hit an astonishing high. History shows that political violence follows when prominent leaders of major political parties openly embrace paranoia …

    (edited)
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  3. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5,582
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Third world leaders wanting to go against election results to keep themselves in power beyond their term have to depend on the support of the military and the security apparatus. But the 45th president of the USA can't count on that. Apparently the generals are going to ignore his orders -- as with Nixon's last days -- in case he pushes the nuclear button or something else crazy.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/12/top...rection-at-capitol-acknowledge-biden-win.html

    WASHINGTON — In an extraordinary letter Tuesday to the U.S. military, the nation’s top commanders condemned last week’s acts of “sedition and insurrection” at the U.S. Capitol, while acknowledging Joe Biden’s election victory.

    The message did not mention President Donald Trump by name, but the Joint Chiefs of Staff, led by U.S. Army Gen. Mark Milley, made it clear that the military intends to stand by the constitutional transfer of power to the next administration.

    “As we have done throughout our history, the U.S. military will obey lawful orders from civilian leadership, support civilian authorities to protect lives and property, ensure public safety in accordance with the law, and remain fully committed to protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic,” wrote the nation’s highest military officers.

    “As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values and oath; it is against the law,” the chiefs wrote.

    The message to the troops comes nearly one week after thousands of the president’s supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol, resulting in at least five deaths, including that of a Capitol Police officer.

    …In a Tuesday evening statement, the Army said it is working with the FBI to determine whether any participants in last week’s riot have any connection to the Army.

    “Any type of activity that involves violence, civil disobedience, or a breach of peace may be punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice or under state or federal law,” an Army spokesperson wrote in an emailed statement.

    … The National Guard said Monday that it has authorized up to 15,000 troops to support the security of the inauguration. Defence officials added that there were approximately 9,000 National Guard members at former President Barack Obama’s inauguration. For Trump’s ceremony in 2017, more than 7,000 troops were mobilized.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5,582
    Likes Received:
    1,109


    They cannot count on too much support from the Washington PD either
     
  5. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,317
    Likes Received:
    788
    President Trump's intention was to have tens of thousands of loyal Americans standing shoulder to shoulder in solidarity to protest the election results as the electoral college votes were officially tallied in Washington DC. Unfortunately as we all know, things went horribly awry and the anarchy that followed was quite counterproductive. However, trying to blame our president for the monster the actions of the democratic party these past 4 years helped to create, is also counterproductive. After all, it is they who've been openly calling for push back against the current administration even before President Trump took the oath of office. Quite hypocritical to call out the president now for doing the same.

    So why the protest? Well, to a lot of people, myself included, the only legitimate way to elect someone to an office as important as The President of the United States, is with an in person vote. So in that regard, President Trump was re-elected by a landslide. Of course the opposition and indeed the court system, has maintained the validity of the write in votes that would appear to give Joe Biden the victory.

    So, are write in votes just as valid as in person votes? Maybe, maybe not. I mean, my wife received a mail in ballot. Mind you, she's not even a registered voter and the reason she's not a registered voter is, she's also not a citizen. The elderly lady that lives next door to us, her husband received a mail in ballot. She just placed it on the shelf next to his urn, as he died a little over 3 years ago. No way to know for sure, but there's every reason to believe had those ballots been returned, they would have been counted with the rest.

    Then there's the man who lives on the street behind us. Like most in this area, he's a register republican and chose to cast his vote in person. Upon checking in however, he was given a provisional ballot as according to their records, he had already voted. He assures us he had not. That's 3 potential miscast votes right there in less than a one mile radius. So when it comes to the validity of write in votes, yeah I have my doubts.

    Fair election? Well, I suppose in the sense that all's fair in love and war, it was. President Trump just got himself out flanked this time. In any event, they say the measure of a good presidency is whether or not you're better off now than you were 4 years ago and for my family both here and abroad, that's a resounding yes. Just hope I'll be able to say the same 4 years from now.

    Ok folks, that's all from me for a while. Taking an extended break. Have fun! ;)
     
  6. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5,582
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Including the Supreme Court recently loaded in favour of Republicans.

    But doesn’t this demonstrate that mail-in votes could have been abused just as much in favour of Trump? Or is the implication that only Biden voters would be dishonest enough to abuse them? It's understood that the majority of mail-in ballots came from Democrat voters, due to them being more cautious during the pandemic and for whatever multiple reasons -- but does that mean Democrats were more likely than Republicans voters to commit voter fraud? It is probably a serious offence, with jail time attached?

    Which have been tested and rejected multiple times up to the Supreme Court.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5,582
    Likes Received:
    1,109


    Joe Rogan: fair down the line, as always, IMO
    (5 minutes)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5,582
    Likes Received:
    1,109


    More from JR (9 minutes)
     

Share This Page