Reading Scripture

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Cino, Jan 29, 2021.

  1. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Correct.
    So, in spirit of discussion, and apology for repetition:
    ... ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
  2. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    Words are a tool and meanings change. I see the issue is that people hesitate when new frames of reference are offered.

    Are you asking if I will not offer Baha'u'llah's Message in my replies on this forum?

    If you are, then no, there would be no purpose for me to be here, that Message is who I want to be. It is no different from you offering from who you want to be, or from anyone else offering from what they want to be.

    I have already said to you that I am not here to convert any person, as it is not I that can influence any soul and thus want or try to.

    Regards Tony
     
  3. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Basically, it's your problem if you change the meaning of words for yourself or your group. When interacting with others, though, don't complain if nobody understands you.

    However, if you start changing my words, I object. You deliberately put it as if I forbid you to participate in discussions from your perspective or frame of reference. That is just not true. I asked you not to recruit people to your cause. You can still shine in other ways.
     
  4. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    What are you asking.

    For me not to hope all people can be united and love each other as one human race, with no predudices?

    Not sure how many times I have to say it is not me that is recruiting, people have their own heart and own choices.

    Regards Tony
     
  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    But how, in actual reality? Are people just suddenly going to be good to each other? What makes it viable, beyond being just a nice idea -- and nothing wrong with hoping, of course -- but when I'm basing a whole religion upon it, surely it's not unreasonable to ask practical questions?
     
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  6. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    Baha'u'llah has said that there will be a series of convulsions that will test humanity and will culminate in an event that will shake the limbs of all mankind.

    These events will teach us that we need to work together and that we are guided in how to live this life.

    Thus, it will unfold over time as personal choices. As a Baha'i, all I am asked to do is keep offering the choices, in Love and Wisdom, there is no compulsion in Religion.

    I hope you will remain safe and happy in these times. We will face many challenges in the years ahead.

    Regards Tony
     
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  7. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    The problem of today, is that everyone is trying to be seen as nicer than the next guy, or to more precise, more "righteous". Barrack said to be your brother's keeper, yet his brother was living in a hovel in Kenya at that time. Apparently it isn't nice to call someone by the wrong gender, even if that person is suffering from gender dysphoria. Apparently is is nice for someone to covet their neighbor' goods, and they should burn down their city to press their point. Apparently it would be nice to sell all you have and give it to someone because they are of a different race. The guy who thinks he is the most righteous guy in the world is apparently the unrighteous Mitt Romney. Probably a symptom of his religious upbringing. The man is overflowing with hate, yet he feels he is better than the deplorables he is supposed to represent. What people think or feel is pretty much useless in today's environment. Either you are built on a foundation of stone, or you are built on one of sand. Today's world is more and more building their houses on a foundation of sand, which was sold to them by the devil at a premium over cost.
     
  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Don’t worry, my brother’s the same. He made his money by hard work and doesn’t expect his siblings to come sponging it off him. He says he’s got his own problems and his own family to worry about.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...irobi-shanty-town-U-S-Presidents-BROTHER.html

    Obama's slumdog brother: Meet the hopeless drunk from a Nairobi shanty town who is the US President's brother. George Obama has battled addictions to drink and drugs for most of his life at the same time as his relative has enjoyed a meteoric rise to power

    Details of the lifestyle of Obama's half-brother emerged with news he has agreed to appear in a documentary made by one of the President's most trenchant critics

    Such, apparently, is his devotion to good works that many Kenyans want George to stand for President, believing anyone sharing the name and blood of the most powerful politician on the planet can transform their lives.

    But, as I discovered, this may prove beyond George. Indeed standing — let alone talking much sense or walking in a straight line — is tricky for the U.S. President’s brother much of the time, due to his chronic addiction to drink and years of drug abuse.


    Nor is there anything heroic and altruistic about his motives for living in the slums. His principal reason is that the potent local moonshine is cheap and readily available here, as is cocaine, heroin and marijuana.

    Clearly following the dictum that the best place to hide a tree is in a forest, George’s decision to settle in a slum called Huruma — which is scarred by alcoholism, drug addiction and violence — means his own destructive behaviour attracts little attention.

    Although he claims not to be using heroin or cocaine, George now spends his time drinking what locals call Chang’aa — a spirit distilled with maize and spiked with chemicals — from the moment he wakes to the moment he slips into unconsciousness.

    Laced with ethanol, embalming fluid or battery acid to give it more kick, this substance is regularly blamed for causing blindness and death when the criminal syndicates behind the trade mix it wrongly.

    A glass costs about 10p and, after just five small shots, even hardened drinkers can barely remember their own name. Regular users suffer liver and kidney failure, as well as mental impairment known as ‘wet brain’ …
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Member

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    And your point is?
     
  10. PricelessPearl

    PricelessPearl Active Member

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    Hi Tone, I haven’t read all the thread on this discussion and I know absolutely nothing about the prophet you quoted, but I liked the quote, nor do I know anything about your faith.

    But I would like to provide my understanding about the promised One (whether the promised son to Abraham or the promise of the coming Messiah or the promise of the return of Christ - which is the resurrection of the dead). For me, the Messenger (I am speaking in a Christian context) comes within us. The Messiah or Son or Spirit of Truth is made known, or appears, to our consciousness. He isn’t a person who is coming upon a cloud in the sky, but rather He descends from heaven or above (above means within) within us. That doesn’t mean that there are never prophets in the world to teach mankind, but the only One I believe anyone needs to wait for is the Lord who is sleeping or buried in the children of God who have not yet awakened to their own divine nature.

    In scripture we are told Christ comes with a two edged sword (which I understand to be the true interpretation of scripture- whatever one’s holy scripture is). This is very destructive because it is the divine light, knowledge, reasoning that lays waste to false knowledge and the reasoning of the carnal or worldly ego mind. In scripture it talks about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem and people understand this to mean the actual stone temple in the city on earth, but I don’t.
    We are God’s temple. God wills and moves within us and when Christ comes or awakens within our consciousness, he tears the temple apart, he leaves no stone unturned.

    Most people (and I am going to come across here as a real shit, if I already haven’t) have Satan seated on the throne within them, and I am speaking about Consciousness because Satan is the personification of a consciousness. Jerusalem is God’s city, where he dwells, and that is in us. So the Master of the House comes to reclaim what is his.

    So my point being, and from my personal experience, is that people tend to interpret scripture from a literal or physical level. And we are free (as much as that is even true) to interpret as we want. But when he comes within the veil is lifted. Others can’t see it. The veil remains for them. But to the person in whom he has comes, they can see him. And for the person in whom he hasn’t yet come, but they believe in him, believe he is coming (that he is within and at the appointed time will appear (or make himself known), blessed is that person.

    Peace
     
  11. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Why do you want to come across as "a real shit"?
     
  12. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I think what she is saying is that most people have "an evil intention" inside them.
    Naturally, saying such a thing begs the question as to whether that applies to her .. or not? :)
     
  13. PricelessPearl

    PricelessPearl Active Member

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    Well I don’t, but it’s a matter of perception isn’t it. Because I am aware that what I have to say might not be well received, or misunderstood.
     
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  14. PricelessPearl

    PricelessPearl Active Member

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    It isn’t at all what I am saying. In fact, I said that everyone has God inside them. Not one person greater than another.
     
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  15. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Well, I think that the communication choices we make often speak as loudly as the content of our message. And it is when the two are at odds that it can become quite confusing.

    So, what's in it for you to come across like that?

    And what's your reasoning to say, essentially, "I think most of you are possessed by an evil spirit" to a forum dedicated to the dialogue between different faiths?
     
  16. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Oh .. nevertheless, Jesus, peace be with him, certainly criticised many of his contemporaries [Pharisees and Saducees],
    accusing them of bad intentions :)

    Personally, I think we are all weak and subject to incline towards evil .. some more than others, of course.
     
  17. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    Thank you for the reply. I know that many priceless pearls are to be found in the ocean of God's Word.

    You have offered many good and true points as to how the Holy Spirit moves us from our satanic tendencies to our spiritual reality.

    Yes we are made in God's image. There is a lot offered on this topic now.

    The Key to all this is, that we need to be born again to find and bring that spirit from within us, we do not get a direct infusion of the Holy Spirit as revelation from God. We must be born again in the Spirit of Christ. (why else the warning of false prophet and that there are many more false than true)

    Baha'u'llah has now explained this in detail and I am happy to discuss if you have specific questions. It is important that we do contemplate what is from God and what is from our own self.

    Regards Tony
     
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  18. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Interesting! I didn't know that being born again was a Baha'i religious concept. How does it "work", as it were? Like in evangelical Christianity, with "speaking in tongues" as a manifestation of receiving the divine spirit? Or is there a sacrament or initiation, administered by those already born again, like Christian baptism? Are there criteria by which one can determine whether this spiritual rebirth has occured?
     
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  19. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    Good question, a question luckily the Baha'i Writings cover in great detail, otherwise I too would not have an answer.

    It has been explained that the meaning of being created in God's Image is that we have been created on the edge of Darkness (our amimal nature) and the beginning of light (our spiritual reality) (Good and Evil)

    The spiritual reality is the potential within us, which only by Faith can we transform ourselves, thus the concept of being Born again, Born from the flesh tenancies to our spiritual capacities.

    Thus God's Messengers are the embodiments of that Spirit, they are the example we aspire to. This is how we know who is a true or false Prophet. A Messenger does not live for this world, thought they are the true Kings of this world. They show us how to be spiritual beings.

    All the lessons of all holy books tell us how to overcome our animal instincts and to become the embodiment of the Spirit.

    This is also why an Atheist can be seen as a moral and ethical giant, as we one and all have the capacity, being born again is recognising the source of that capacity and building upon it.

    The matrix of this world has all that is required for us to grow our spiritual limbs for the life to come.

    There is so much written on this now, that it is hard to know what to offer.

    Regards Tony
     
  20. PricelessPearl

    PricelessPearl Active Member

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    Thanks.

    I think that we do get direct revelation from the Holy Spirit, and I say this from my experience. I define rebirth as a radical psychological transformation- or dying to the outer man or personal sense of self, of being a separate individual born of man, to the awakening or identification as That One who is dwelling within and coming forth as me. Who is Christ - my salvation. And That One is the same One in every person (I Am). So I am no longer born of the flesh but born from above.

    As Paul said, I no longer live in the flesh but by the faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.

    And, somewhere Paul says, it is no longer I who lives but rather Christ in me.

    Yes, the personal carnal mind is rather annoying. I constantly am reminding myself to “look up”.
     

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