Thoughts on Incarnation

Cino

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The Lord can't do this, Cino? Being Spirit?

If the water were Spirit, if you filled a cup from a larger aquarium, and remove the cup,
it is all Spirit, both in the aquarium and in the cup.

Depends on what you mean by "one". Indivisible? Unique? One-of-a-kind? "There can be only one"? Nothing-but?

Does your understanding of divine Oneness allow for god-free zones? Would they not constitute an other, a second, a duality?

In your water/spirit analogy, what would happen if you divided the water into two equal halves? which one would be the "original one"?

Edit: I'm interested in your views on these questions. I am not challenging your belief in the One.
 

RJM

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In your water/spirit analogy, what would happen if you divided the water into two equal halves? which one would be the "original one"?
Wow! Good question, bro :confused:
 

Geo

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CINO

In your water/spirit analogy, what would happen if you divided the water into two equal halves? which one would be the "original one"?

Perhaps you may be referring to The Holy Spirit?
 
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RJM

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Every point is the centre of the universe?
 

Cino

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Perhaps you may be referring to The Holy Spirit?

Actually, I'm still trying to figure out what you meant here:

The Almighty is One, Who's domain is apart from time.

So, were you referring to the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit separate from the Almighty one? Does time apply to the Holy Spirit, but not the Almighty one? How do you understand One-ness given all these distinctions and separations?
 

Cino

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Every point is the centre of the universe?

Then we're all the Monad?

1024px-Monad.svg.png
Of rather
Yin_yang.svg
 
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Geo

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RJM

Plot thickens .

No. Not really. Or, maybe for you? Too much data to sift through?

Matrix-4-Changes-Story-Perspective-Yahya-Abdul-Mateen~2.jpg


Jesus stated "ye are gods". I referred to the angelic, swept down to the earth, (time and space), by the dragons tail
Yet, you still seem confused.
 

Geo

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RJM
Not me

But, maybe you are.
Because you haven't, it seems, been getting what I've been saying about our evolved, organic aspect, in illusory time and space.
Over the vast amount of millions of years...
Humanity is not all that!
Which, if you look at wildlife, most all creatures feel the same way.
Life... Is much more...than the organic aspect.
Which it seems, you have a problem receiving.

Just saying... Objectivity is a goal.
How many can be this objective though? I think many of the Experiencer's of the NDE can.
Think?
 
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RJM

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Life... Is much more...than the organic aspect.
Which it seems, you have a problem receiving.
In fact I personally have no problem receiving that. As you well know.

Not very encouraging for the success of your Matrix recruitment drive, that it relies on misrepresentation?
 
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Thomas

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Life... Is much more...than the organic aspect.
We all know that Geo, you seem stuck on the idea that you're a lone voice in the wilderness, that no-one knows ... but we all do ...

Yes, life is more than the mere physical ... so what do we do with that?
 
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Geo

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We all know that Geo, you seem stuck on the idea that you're a lone voice in the wilderness, that no-one knows ... but we all do ...

Yes, life is more than the mere physical ... so what do we do with that?

So, what am I saying in relation to this?
Again, the Wachowski's provided a good illustration.
People, normally, live subjectively.
Objectivity is a goal.
 

Thomas

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So, what am I saying in relation to this?
Again, the Wachowski's provided a good illustration.
What illustration did you have in mind?

As I see it, Lana Wachowski said; "the premise for The Matrix began with the idea that everything in our world, every single fibre of reality, is actually a simulation created in a digital universe" So two distinct and quite separate domains, the Real, and the Illusory. Atma and Maya. hardly a groundbreaking intuition.

A Platonic Christian, fitting Biblical Revelation into a Platonic (dualist) worldview, would nod at this and generally agree with Lana's viewpoint.

A Christian Platonist, on the other hand, sees things differently, and interprets Plato in light of the Bible. Big difference.

The genius of this was St Maximus the Confessor. Maximus's concept of time rests on his simple and brilliant reworking of the Platonic triune in light of Revelation. He asserts the absolute Divine Transcendence of God, while at the same time insists in Divine Immanence.

In Plato, the pattern is Rest-Movement-Becoming (Stasis-Kinesis-Genesis): The souls were at rest in the contemplation of the One, for some inexplicable reason they turned away and thus fell, and the phenomenal world was created to catch the falling spark and arrest its decline. The Gnostics followed this line.

For Maximus, is is Genesis-Kinesis-Stasis. God creates the world out of nothing, and this 'becoming' is itself a movement from nothing to something, and by that is born time and space. This movement is neither chaotic nor anarchic, it is directed towards its end – rest in God, the return to the source of its arising. Thus, as Revelations says, 'I am the Alpha and Omega', the beginning and end of all things.

'Becoming' or 'being' is the simple, phenomenal fact that there is a creation. 'Movement' (or 'change') is the cosmic process – characterised by space and time – in which things (under the impetus of their individual logoi towards the Logos) develop toward their destinies.

Though there may be some beings diverted by and into 'evil', Maximus takes a decidedly positive view of creation (as do your NDEs) and sees in it not merely motion but directed motion. As 'being' corresponds to 'becoming', 'well-being' corresponds to 'movement'.

Time, then, corresponds to 'well-being' because it has a natural goal – the cessation of motion in 'rest', that is the perfection of 'being', through 'well-being' into 'ever-well-being'.

All that is created has a beginning in that it has come to be. St Gregory speaks of time as diastema, 'interval', and applies it to both intelligible (spiritual) and sensible (physical) creation. many other anthropological triunes flow from the first, one of which is being-choice-grace, and another birth-baptism-resurrection.

What's my point here?

St Paul nails it when he's talking to the Athenians (Acts 17:28): "For in him we live, and move, and are."

He is quoting the Cretan poet, Epimenides of Cnossos, who wrote that 600 years before Christ.

"God, who made the world, and all things therein; he, being Lord of heaven and earth ... And hath made of one, all mankind, to dwell upon the whole face of the earth, determining appointed times, and the limits of their habitation. That they should seek God, if happily they may feel after him or find him, although he be not far from every one of us" (v24, 26-27)

As our Muslim brethren say, 'God is closer to us than our jugular vein.' (cf Quran 50:16)
 

RJM

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For Maximus, is is Genesis-Kinesis-Stasis. God creates the world out of nothing, and this 'becoming' is itself a movement from nothing to something, and by that is born time and space. This movement is neither chaotic nor anarchic, it is directed towards its end – rest in God, the return to the source of its arising. Thus, as Revelations says, 'I am the Alpha and Omega', the beginning and end of all things.

'Becoming' or 'being' is the simple, phenomenal fact that there is a creation. 'Movement' (or 'change') is the cosmic process – characterised by space and time – in which things (under the impetus of their individual logoi towards the Logos) develop toward their destinies.

Though there may be some beings diverted by and into 'evil', Maximus takes a decidedly positive view of creation (as do your NDEs) and sees in it not merely motion but directed motion. As 'being' corresponds to 'becoming', 'well-being' corresponds to 'movement'.

Time, then, corresponds to 'well-being' because it has a natural goal – the cessation of motion in 'rest', that is the perfection of 'being', through 'well-being' into 'ever-well-being'.

All that is created has a beginning in that it has come to be. St Gregory speaks of time as diastema, 'interval', and applies it to both intelligible (spiritual) and sensible (physical) creation. many other anthropological triunes flow from the first, one of which is being-choice-grace, and another birth-baptism-resurrection.
There is no standstill in nature. Standstill is stagnation, and stagnation is dying. The whole birth/death circle of nature happens in time and space. In nature we are either growing or we are dying? When we do die, our 'spirit' passes beyond the walls of time and space that confine us physically within the dimension of nature?
 

Geo

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Corbet's video he posted to me on the Matrix thread is pretty good.
Have you seen it?
Is the LP record a good illustration?
 

Thomas

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There is no standstill in nature.
Exactly!

The whole birth/death circle of nature happens in time and space. In nature we are either growing or we are dying? When we do die, our 'spirit' passes beyond the walls of time and space that confine us physically within the dimension of nature?
Wether we see it as 'our spirit' that goes on, or 'our bequest' that goes on and shapes what comes next, or as 'life as such' goes on and this bundle of ephemeral impressions were around for a moment, like sparks off a grindstone ... we should be open hearted, thankful, generous and gracious.

God said 'Let there be light' and the Far East we have 'Aum' – Light and Sound, both are waves, and both necessitate space and time.
 
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Thomas

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Corbet's video he posted to me on the Matrix thread is pretty good.
Have you seen it?
Is the LP record a good illustration?
Is this addressed to me?

Yes ... it made me smile, because I always ask, how do you get the whole of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, that's a huge orchestra and a choir, into a groove on a record, and still I am able to discern all the different instruments? It's a mystery to me! :D

But yes, personally I enjoy science, its speculations and its ways of looking.
 
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