Why can't we all get along?

muhammad_isa

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If that is your position, I applaud you. I do have to tell you, however, and maybe it is only me, that my reading of your posts has not really given me that impression.

I have been involved with discussing the topic of the trinity, Nicene creed and early Christian history, yes.
..not because what other people believe bothers me, but because, much like @Thomas , I like to discuss the Bible
and Qur'an .. faith in Almighty G-d.

I can get frustrated in a discussion, naturally .. but that is not about being angry about somebody's beliefs.

The Qur'an says that people who believe that Jesus is G-d are wrong.
I am not G-d. People can believe it or not as they wish.

I was raised as a "Nicene Christian". Was that my "fault" ? I don't think so. :)
It is not for me to judge anybody else. It is for me to communicate with others,
and encourage people to seek knowledge. If they don't want to, or think
that I'm wrong, so be it.
 
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RabbiO

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@Tone Bristow-Stagg -

We’ve been down this road before, you and I, so what I say now will come as no surprise.

You are a passionate member of your faith community. You are a passionate advocate for the beliefs of your faith. My problem is that you, and other members of your faith community, give lip service to the truths, the wisdom, and the beauty to be found in other faiths and then, in the same breath, go on to demean those other faiths as outdated, outmoded, incomplete and no longer really valid. In doing so you pay no heed to the fact that, for example, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are not static. They have continued to generate spiritual wisdom and insight for centuries.
 
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RabbiO

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See in one another the face of the divine or see in one another simply our common humanity. Celebrate the values, the truths we hold in common. Understand the differences between us, not to change the other person but rather to recognize and appreciate the diversity of thought and belief that can enrich our lives.

We don’t all have look alike, talk alike, think alike to work together,
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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@Tone Bristow-Stagg -

We’ve been down this road before, you and I, so what I say now will come as no surprise.

You are a passionate member of your faith community. You are a passionate advocate for the beliefs of your faith. My problem is that you, and other members of your faith community, give lip service to the truths, the wisdom, and the beauty to be found in other faiths and then, in the same breath, go on to demean those other faiths as outdated, outmoded, incomplete and no longer really valid. In doing so you pay no heed to the fact that, for example, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are not static. They have continued to generate spiritual wisdom and insight for centuries.

A big hello to you and I hope you are well and happy.

Firstly lip service is supported by the examples of our lives, unless you can point out where we do not practice what was asked of us?

It all comes back to one conclusion, is the Message from God, or is it not. After all, that is the Choice God has given us, do you disagree with that conclusion?

So it has naught to do with me, but in the choices I make in regards to my actions as a human being, in relation to what is asked of me by God.

What is from God is a free will choice we all have.

Regards Tony
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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See in one another the face of the divine or see in one another simply our common humanity. Celebrate the values, the truths we hold in common. Understand the differences between us, not to change the other person but rather to recognize and appreciate the diversity of thought and belief that can enrich our lives.

We don’t all have look alike, talk alike, think alike to work together,

I agree we are to find God in all people. That is the way we are to live our lives.

The Christians have a great prayer, Thy Will be done, thus that is what I pray.

It seems you also pray for G_d's Will to be done. Personally I have found that Will, may not reflect what we have embraced in life and we have to be able to accept the change needed.

Regards Tony
 

davidsheep88

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Nope because that guy took my money and wallet, they guy on the left gave me the crazy look -_-, and for some reason people steal stuff from one another something that happen since the beggining of time. So no sorry everything will be fix until the end times when G-d fixes it all. Truly sorry wish for easy everything but we will wait.
 
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Tone Bristow-Stagg

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Interesting....this is everyone trying, right?

We all do not have to agree with each other, we just have to practice what each of our Faiths say we should do towards each other.

We each need to choose to live the virtues and foster a unity in our diversity.

Regards Tony
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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Nope because that guy took my money and wallet, they guy on the left gave me the crazy look -_-, and for some reason people steal stuff from one another something that happen since the beggining of time. So no sorry everything will be fix until the end times when G-d fixes it all. Truly sorry wish for easy everything but we will wait.

Why wait, we have have been given that choice and capacity as an individual, to fix it within our own selves.

Regards Tony
 

muhammad_isa

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Interesting....this is everyone trying, right?

I'm not sure how I come across to others, but that is certainly my intention.
I can understand why some people might think that the topic of Israel/Palestine should be off-limits..

However, I'm not sure how long our "UNeye" is back with us here on IO.
I would just like to say that I personally would like to see a 2 state solution to this apparently eternal conflict.
I'm not "holding my breath", but just making my own position clear.

Furthermore, I am not in favour of the flag-waving and nationalism that is going on, on both sides.
It should not be about which religion or tribe that we belong to .. but do people care what I think?
..probably not :(
 

seattlegal

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What will it take?

Or is it just not in our nature?

I am NOT talking here, in this forum, but rather the world, all religions all nations, al people.

But we do need to start here ...if we expect it to happen elsewhere
Tribalism, imo. I also consider universalism as a variation of tribalism (one tribe.)
 

Navigius

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What will it take?

Or is it just not in our nature?

I am NOT talking here, in this forum, but rather the world, all religions all nations, al people.

But we do need to start here ...if we expect it to happen elsewhere

Would non-violent co-existence between two interlocutors with mutually exclusive worldviews (even allowing robust debate) be an acceptable outcome?
 
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stranger

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Tribalism, imo. I also consider universalism as a variation of tribalism (one tribe.)

Seattlegal, Namaste. I am confused. Is one tribe (univerlalism/apocatastasis) a good thing or bad thing? Though we are of different traditions, I honor the divine which is in you.
 

stranger

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Would non-violent co-existence between two interlocutors with mutually exclusive worldviews (even allowing robust debate) be an acceptable outcome?

Navigius, welcome to the list. I suppose it would all ride on what is meant by non-violent co-existence? This suggests distance and I'm not sure I would agree with that. I rather would be in favor of a merging of the two into one (a round, not broken in two) which is, by reason of that sacred union, capable of allowing and reconciling all robust debate.
 

Navigius

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Navigius, welcome to the list. I suppose it would all ride on what is meant by non-violent co-existence? This suggests distance and I'm not sure I would agree with that. I rather would be in favor of a merging of the two into one (a round, not broken in two) which is, by reason of that sacred union, capable of allowing and reconciling all robust debate.

If mutually exclusive worldviews by definition cannot be reconciled, how could two such interlocutors be merged into one?
 

stranger

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If mutually exclusive worldviews by definition cannot be reconciled, how could two such interlocutors be merged into one?

Holy marriage, that is to say, union which is ordained by God. Love erases the barrier and reconciles all things. It's holy magic. The essences combine to form something better than either could have achieved alone.

This is priceless, or to to put it another way, their is no price I wouldn't pay to see it happen. This is interfaith at it's core.

In Christian symbolism, this was Christ and the church. But union may be seen in other ways. Who does God/the universe/etc. love? What are the ordained channels through which that love will flow? Mysteries all, but perhaps the answers will soon come. We can hope it happens in our lifetime.
 
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Ahanu

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Seattlegal, Namaste. I am confused. Is one tribe (univerlalism/apocatastasis) a good thing or bad thing? Though we are of different traditions, I honor the divine which is in you.

I guess one tribe could potentially be a bad thing if the whole becomes oppressive and coercive to tribes that disagree, and there will always be those that disagree. I am not a fan of using the term tribalism in the way seattlegal is using it, although I am aware of the phrase "to find one's tribe" and so on. It seems more and more people are talking about political tribalism these days with huge segments of the population gridlocked into concrete positions.
 

stranger

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I guess one tribe could potentially be a bad thing if the whole becomes oppressive and coercive to tribes that disagree, and there will always be those that disagree. I am not a fan of using the term tribalism in the way seattlegal is using it, although I am aware of the phrase "to find one's tribe" and so on. It seems more and more people are talking about political tribalism these days with huge segments of the population gridlocked into concrete positions.

Hi... Well I think SG is very smart and might have been working a little wordplay magic there, but I was not sure so I was attempting to engage her a bit to see if that was indeed the case.

Now I'm not sure if this was her point or not, but at the risk of getting slapped or getting a tiger claw mark (old joke from the structured debate thread), I would hazard a guess that she was talking about us all (all traditions) as being one tribe with notable differences. Difference among people who love one another can be a good thing, and even an attractive thing.

I think the consensus on Paul here was that he never left Judaism, he just became a new creature. This could be the same for us. We all have to find a tradition (or non-tradition) which is comfortable for us and then engage others who are different from us from that position. In other words, we find the place that is comfortable and acceptable for us and begin working toward interfaith from there. One tribe in the universal sense is the whole world with all of its differences. The differences are the "tribes" which are still part of the larger whole.

IMO we are not asked to convert or take other religious positions if we don't want to. As our Muslim brothers and sisters would be quick to point out, "There is no compulsion in religion". All that is needed is that we work with what we have and in ways that are comfortable to us. Now, there is room to expand our comfort level, no doubt about that, but one cannot force drastic change upon another, it ruins the whole thing.

I honestly think all that is needed is a loving and open heart, and once that is established, the love will carry you like a leaf on the wind. This is close to the way the Sufis looked at it, I think. Fall in love and see what happens. Lovers love the differences they find in their Beloveds, it makes the love even more ardent. Translate that to the spiritual and you can begin to love the differences you find in other people, without needing or even wanting to change their positions or beliefs. If change is to happen, let it happen naturally and without force, if it doesn't happen it's okay, the person is still loved anyway for their differences (it is still attractive to the Lover).

Stay open, let it flow naturally, don't be afraid of change but don't let others force their will upon you. That's about it for me.
 
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