Having hard time understanding

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by FDRI, May 31, 2021.

  1. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I don't remember objecting to the Bible overall..
    I mentioned a few things I do object to in post #20.

    The Qur'an states clearly that usury is strictly forbidden. I think it is very clear why.
    I find the text that states that it is only forbidden when dealing with a fellow Jew as highly inappropriate.

    ..need I go on..
     
  2. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    So now we move goalposts still further? The OP and gist of the thread is an exploration whether religious texts advocate violence against those outside of the faith. You object to money; I object to actual physical slavery, subjugation, and outright murder - need I quote the Libyan ambassador to T. Jefferson *again*? Any suggestion the ambassador is not a good Muslim is moot and irrelevant, as a member of the ruling "party," he represents the shared beliefs of the citizenry of that state. And may I remind, the period in question involved the Barbary States (plural) all along the North coast of Africa, so considerably more than one Muslim state agreed with and followed these tenets as interpreted by those ruling parties, some of which still to this day practice slavery.

    One of your comments from post #20:
    "I'm sure that some Muslims have become Jews, but not many. Why revert to an older revelation, when you have the current one which confirms 'the law' and what is kosher and what is not?"

    To which I reply, not many convert to Christianity because they get their heads cut off. Not always by a lynch mob, more often it is ordered by the State (i.e. judges, Presidents, politicians, Imams and other persons of power and authority).

    Perhaps this will refresh a memory?

    That finger points both ways.

    So if we want to go down rabbit holes, it isn't at all difficult to do.

    Perhaps best to stay on topic?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2021
  3. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    We can try Juan, we can try. However, in my brief time here it seems the two become repeatedly confused. Perhaps there are somethings we just can't controll. o_O
     
  4. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I understand conversations wander, but when subjects unrelated are brought up in order to dodge the question, and then when those matters are addressed other subjects still farther from the OP are brought up because some persons don't want to address the OP, but instead take (yet another?) opportunity to diss on other beliefs in some attempt to justify themselves without actually even touching the subject of the OP, it begins to look like someone is afraid to truthfully address the OP.

    Enough with the moving goal posts, come back to the OP. Simple.
     
  5. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    I know Juan, but it seems my simplicity has been stolen from me. :( AIt wasn't my choice, but now I am stuck and crazy. I suspect it will end with my own permanent band. :( I would do the deed myself, but as I said, choice was taken from me. I only chose life. :( But we are all responsible for our choices in the end. Enough, you are correct, back to the OP. I only wish it were that easy to recover my simplicity. :(
     
  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    No .. I was addressing the OP. It was asked whether "the rabbis" had changed something,
    and I said:

    ..then you took offence to this, as I'm questioning the accuracy of the Bible. You then turn it onto
    the accuracy of the Qur'an, which I admitted could be looked into, despite the fact it's a relatively recent revelation.

    Perhaps we should agree to disagree.
    I'm not an expert on violence. I've never subscribed to it, myself.
    If [ and I say if ] the OT prescribes violence to civilians, there would seem to be something wrong.

    I have seen atheists attacking the Bible and Qur'an. I am not .. just the bits I find difficult to accept.
    If you think that the Bible is "spot on", then that is your belief.
    If I think that the Qur'an is "spot on" then that is my belief.

    ..and Almighty God knows why we believe what we believe.
     
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  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    This is the whole issue, imo. Especially if I am not very familiar with the Bible?
     
  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    There are violent or difficult passages from the Quran I am told should be read in context, and understanding the events of the time etc, and so that understanding is accepted. However the same consideration is seldom returned, and with no particular reference towards to yourself intended? It is all that interfaith discussion really asks for?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
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  9. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    To begin, my irritability level is at zero at this point, I have throughout maintained a neutral posture. I know I can come across strongly at times, but there is no overt offense intended at any time to this point in this discussion, merely my pointing to specifics as they apply to how I view the various points that have come up.

    On the chance I misunderstood, it seemed to me (including interaction with FDRI) that early on the discussion turned to matters of deliberate misinterpretation.

    I honestly do not recall any such admission, here or ever. The closest was the surprise admission that Imams in poor areas resort to shady dealings (my paraphrase).

    That is really all I have ever asked of anybody here, and to do so in a respectful manner. I saw at no time in this conversation where things became disrespectful, but there are also limits. When challenge is met with challenge and opposing sides justify with their preferred set of facts, invariably people are going to knock heads. It is an inevitable part of being human, but it isn't mandatory to escalate to violence and war particularly if we have to find a way to get along together.

    I am in a tiny minority, the Bible to me doesn't have to be "spot on" to still contain great value. No religion has to be "spot on" to contain great value, that is rather the point I try to convey at every opportunity. If all we ever do with any faith is go through with a laser beam micro focus picking apart the details, that faith will crumble...any faith. That is what I call throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I don't have a problem throwing out the dirty bathwater, but I will cherish the baby in every faith.
     
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  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Why do you think you're in the tiny minority? You are in a minority of at least two here including me, lol
     
  11. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Friend, I sincerely hope what I am reading is not what I am thinking. We all have our struggles, you are not alone. If you need help do not be afraid to reach out and ask. Your presence here is highly valued, and not by me alone. I see it all around the boards, you are worthy and you are treasured by many here.
     
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  12. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    The issue isn't around trying to convert anyone to my own religion/belief system here, imo? It's about understanding.

    I genuinely have a problem understanding why I should need to convince anyone to believe exactly the same as I do about God?

    God speaks individually to every human heart and soul, imo.
     
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  13. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    Lol, Juan... I think you meant to post this on the jokes thread? ;)
     
  14. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Good grief, Charlie Brown...
     
  15. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Not at all, I wrote what I meant and I meant what I wrote.
     
  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    God doesn't care about my religion or my faith. God meets me where I am when my life brings me to submit my own free will to the divine assistance, and guides me from that point, imo
     
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  17. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I've said many times; at the Great White Throne Judgment G-d isn't going to ask what we believed, He is going to ask what we did with what we believed.

    Religions are the tools given to us by Him, what are we going to do for Him using these tools in this existence?
     
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  18. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    Not getting the warm fuzzies just yet, Juan. ;) Sometimes I have this dream. There's a carrot and there's stick. I can see both of them fairly well. The only thing I can't see is who's holding the stick. The dream is recurring, however, revealing a detail, here a little and there a little. Not that I can do anything about it, but I'm a curious creature nunetheless.
     
  19. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Don't you think you are?

    Holding the stick?

    Choices.
     
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  20. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I can scratch my back, or flog the living daylights out of myself. Or I can use that stick to reach out to someone drowning in their own quicksand....

    Or go for a walk on one of the many paths up the mountain...
     

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