Muslims are Christian???

Discussion in 'Islam' started by wil, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Interesting...so are you indicating that Muslims see themselves as Christian? (Believing Christ is G!d/Allah?

    This counters my understanding of.what.i often hear. "We are all Muslim, most just don't know it yet."

    I thought a main belief of Islam is that they honor Jesus specifically not as Allah, but as a prophet, a Jewish prophet along.with the rest...and Mohamed (pbuh) is the last.and.supercedes the rest (as far.as.changes to laws and understandings go)
     
  2. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    No, I don't think they do.
    It is because I was raised as a Christian, and on discovering the Qur'an, I don't feel that I have
    "stopped believing" in G-d. I consider myself as other "non conformists".

    That's about right, I would say.
    I don't see much change in the law though, apart from "round the edges"
    .. and the Sabbath replaced with Jumaa' [ Friday ]
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Well there are dietary restrictions right? Nee traditions on prayer and dress?

    So you are saying you still believe Jesus as G!d and as the son?
     
  4. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    No, I don't think I ever DID believe that "Jesus is G-d".
    Yes, I was involved in Christian activity where vicars and teachers used the phrase "through Jesus Christ our Lord".
    It was all a bit confusing to me. I grasped the concept of G-d as the Creator of the universe, but the trinity .. mystery.

    I believe that ALL the prophets are "sons of G-d". It is used in the OT to denote "closeness to G-d" .. somebody special.
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    And by extension we are all sons/daughters of God ...

    ... Could I not therefore say I am Christian, in that I believe in Christ, and Muslim, in that I submit to the will of God?
     
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  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    We are all sons and daughters of G-d, I would agree.
    However, this is the problem with the word "son" .. it can have many different renderings or connotations.

    I don't think so :)
    You have to believe in the Qur'an and Muhammad, peace be with him, to be a Muslim.

    Now .. you might say that you have to believe that Jesus is G-d to be a Christian .. and that's probably why we can't see eye to eye.
    I vehemently disagree !
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Quite. Used in the general, 'lower case m' Arabic sense, every believer in every tradition is a muslim, in that s/he submits to the teachings of the tradition in question. But a Muslim – 'upper case M' – infers a particular and distinct set of beliefs.

    OK. You identify a Muslim as a belief in the Qur'an and Muhammad (pbuh). Surely then, if one doesn't believe the Bible, in one of the fundamental aspects of Christianity – the crucifixion – that rather rules out being a Christian?

    I mean, can a Muslim say I'm a Muslim, but I don't believe 'this' or 'that' in the Qur'an? I would have thought not. Never met one who did, anyway ...

    The Qur'an honours Abraham and Moses, is a Muslim therefore Jewish, too?
     
  8. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    No .. that just is not so. Take Unitarian belief, for example..

    Unitarians who continue to regard Jesus as central to their faith will typically hold some or all of the following views about him:
    • Jesus was a man, not God
    • Jesus was not physically resurrected
    • Jesus was a Jewish prophet with a mission of reconciliation
    • Jesus was filled with divine inspiration
    • Jesus is a supreme example of living with integrity and compassion
    • Jesus' life is reflective of the divine potential in all of us
    The Crucifixion is not the sacrifice of God's only Son to redeem humanity from sin, but an inspiring example of a man responding to evil with integrity and forgiveness.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/unitarianism/beliefs/god.shtml

    There are many sects in Islam with varying interpretation of scripture, as in Christianity.

    I have met a couple of Jews who converted to Islam. I think you would have to ask them how they felt about it. :)
    Personally, I feel very connected to Judaism. Why wouldn't I? I believe in the Bible and the prophets etc.

    I thought that I was Jewish for a while. I began to take the OT literally.
    [ eg. can't sit in the same chair as a menstruating lady .. must take a bath if a fly touches you ]

    It was then when the Qur'an came along. :)
    ..and Almighty God is the Best of Planners.
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    They don't refute the Bible though, that's the point. Just interpret it accordingly.

    OK, but do those interpretations include a flat denial of the veracity of a significant aspect of the Qur'an?

    So do I. I think it's a tragedy we lost that connection. But I don't identify as Jewish, out of respect, really.

    So the Baha'i would tell us.
     
  10. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I see.
    I thought that you have already said that the Bible is not inerrant.
    Make your mind up. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    My mind is clear, I see no contradiction.
     
  12. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I'm not sure what you mean by that..
    Who is refuting the Bible, exactly?

    I know you refute the Qur'an :)
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    I can't believe you don't know the answer to that question.
     
  14. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I don't know why..
    Are you saying that Unitarians aren't refuting the Bible, but I am?
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Come on brother you are being disingenuous, Dad would not approve.

    Are there any Unitarians in this discussion?
     
  16. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    It's all in the mind.
    You see the name "Muhammad" and know that I accept the Qur'an, and then you all want to disown me. :)

    Do as you will .. "Dad" knows all.

    I would also like to point out, that in towns here in the UK where there is no mosque,
    both the Quakers and Unitarians welcome Muslims to use their places of worship for Friday prayers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  17. Connect Muslims

    Connect Muslims New Member

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    No, Muslims & Christians both are separate religions. Islam religions were started in the 7th century. Christianity began in the 1st century CE after Jesus died and was said to be resurrected.
     
  18. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Well perhaps there is no set requirement to be a Christian. The message of Christ is so universal that it is interpreted in many ways by many people. A Catholic will not tell a Unitarian: "You're not a Christian." True there are fundamentalist 'we Christian' groups but they do not have an overall say.

    Most Christians would certainly accept the death by crucifixion and the resurrection as core Christian belief, although there may be splinter groups that do not?

    Christianity has moved along since medieval times. But essentially without the Catholic Church with all its mysteries and dogmas -- and for all its faults and mistakes -- there would be no Jesus and no gospels for people to talk about? The Catholic Church has been the keeper of the flame for more than 2000 years. IMO
    Was said to have died, according to Islam?
     
  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    The gospels and the accompanying apocrypha are what we have of Jesus’s life, apart from the rather sparse mentions in the Quran. As far as I know the apocrypha do not wholesale reject chunks of the gospels, but rather attempt to fill in-gaps, but in a way that is accepted by most scholars as mostly suspect.

    So of course there will always be debate about the meaning of the gospels, but it is not acceptable simply to discard the parts we don’t agree with – or the entire gospel of John -- as ‘corrupted’ without being able to provide alternative supporting historical texts. IMO

    It has to be accepted that the Gospels and the Quran differ significantly and irreconcilably concerning the death on the cross and resurrection, which are core Christian beliefs?
     
  20. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Welcome to the forums! Good to have you. It would be wonderful if you wrote a short introductory post in the introductions part of the forum, so we can learn a bit more about you.

    As far as I know, the two religions are closely related and share common origins. Would you say more about the differences and similarities, as you understand them?
     
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