Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by juantoo3, Jun 23, 2021.
From Islam I admire their art, architecture, and poetry.
- RJM, what are you talking about? Aupmanyav is never offended. What worries me are my own posts which may have offended people in the two forums that I visit.
- God and his touch are real to many people (good luck to them) but I have never experienced them, therefore, I do not agree to it.
- With an absolute non-availability of any evidence regarding God and the related paraphernalia (prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis, heaven, hell, judgment, resurrection, etc.), IMHO, 'not believing' is more appropriate.
- For scientist a thing has to exist before they can study, investigate it; how can and what should they investigate a thing that does not even exist?
- Well, friend, the atheist take is a bit different from yours.
That is Brahman in Hinduism; or Buddhadhatu, Tathagatagarbha, Dhammakaya in Buddhism. Thich Nhat Hanh did not need to coin a new word for it. I suppose he did that for his European/American audience, being and inter-being. In Advaita Hinduism and Buddhism, there is no being.
Baha'u'llah might express "no being" like this: we "should regard all else beside God as transient, and count all things save Him, Who is the Object of all adoration, as utter nothingness."
Abdu'l-Baha like this: "The second proposition is that existence and nonexistence are both relative. If it be said that such a thing came into existence from nonexistence, this does not refer to absolute nonexistence, but means that its former condition in relation to its actual condition was nothingness . . . Man, like the mineral, is existing; but the existence of the mineral in relation to that of man is nothingness, for when the body of man is annihilated it becomes dust and mineral. . . . Though the dust -- that is to say, the mineral -- has existence in its own condition, in relation to man it is nothingness. Both exist, but the existence of dust and mineral, in relation to man, is nonexistence and nothingness . . . Therefore, though the world of contingency exists, in relation to the existence of God it is nonexistent and nothingness. . . . In the same way, the existence of creation in relation to the existence of God is nonexistence."
Well, their views and your views. Views differ. I have never come across anyone providing evidence for any God/Allah and all related paraphernalia. Just books, and their own writing in case of Bahais. I do agree that all we perceive is a illusion (maya, a product of interaction between the inputs provided by our senses and brain), but they are not 'utter nothingness' as Bahaollah says. If they were utter nothingness then even we would not be there to see anything.
Abdul Baha as an after-thought in his explanation admits the mistake that what Bahaollah said does not mean 'utter nothingness'.
Does Abdul Baha mean that his father, whom you take to be a manifestation of Allah (mirror image of Allah) was telling untruth. Father proposes, the son disposes.
You should first resolve this inconsistency.
If there is no evidence for God, what are we supposed to adore?
Most people that I come across seem to be more concerned with their lives here and now..
i.e. how much income they have .. what quality of life they have etc.
They measure their success in terms of their bank balance / how many letters they have after their name.
While these things are obviously relevant in our lives, they are not the reason for our existence.
If that is the only meaning that people can find in life, I would say that they are being deceived.
They might be deceiving themselves, thinking that they are being smart and successful.
Nay ! They will come to know .. better to know now, before we get left behind.
Money is only a temporary currency
Aup, please forgive me, I don't know if this will help or not... What we adore is the word that escapes us while in the throws of lavish munificence, whether thought or spoken out loud. I have said before that while I wished to curse, endearments poured forth from me. Meaning, being loved with verity and passion changes what we think, who we are. It is not necessary to think, or try to believe, it is only necessary to receive. I think all creatures have this capacity. It's easy as pie. There is no try, there is only do. It's a natural reactor.
Hear hear, friend. Money can't buy me love.
@stranger, it does not help. I am a hard boiled atheist. But my belief does not allow me to differentiate between people, animals, vegetation and non-living substances. It is THOROGHLY non-discriminating.
Well, I do not care about life. I have lived my life as circumstances permitted, sometimes harsh, sometimes sweet. I do not have any money, not even one Indian rupee (USD 0.013). I have passed it on to my son. My journey will come to an end soon (entering 79 in less than three months). I know exactly what will happen when I am dying and also what will happen after my death. There are no surprises for me there. I have given detailed instructions about how to go about my cremation and related things to my son (the main idea is no priests, no rituals, no mantras).
You know more than me then..
I have no idea about "who" I was before I was born and after I die.
I firmly believe in souls [ non-material ].
One cannot prove anything about the non-material with science, quite obviously
i.e. science is the observations of the physical, material universe
Certainly seems so. I know what (not who) I was before I was born. Abandoning superstitions opens doors to new knowledge. Again, the question arises as to what is physical and what is not. Is energy physical?
Energy? I believe so, it is one of the best-studied aspects in modern physics.
Is information physical? It can be stored by physical means - writing, or representation of binary digits in electronics - and some of the properties of stored information can be interpreted in terms of thermodynamics (entropy), but is information "in and of itself" physical?
Yes, good question .. is data a physical concept?
No .. not him
It's a sad situation when that happens . All I can tell you is what you already know: Don't be discouraged, and keep posting early and often. Diligence eventually bears fruit.
Yeah, Energy, in my parlance, Brahman. Every place, every thing.
What is physical and what is non-physical? What is physical today can be non-physical tomorrow. Uranium decay releasing energy. Storing of energy is probably giving the sub-atomic particles an extra spin.
I appreciate this. Much like the Native American "today is a good day to die." A sentiment I share in great degree.
My mom's 90th birthday this week...whole bunch of 80 and 90 year olds...folks she either volunteers with at the hospital or the thrift shop, some she square dances with, others she plays bridge with....90 driving, keeping a house.. and still taking care of me when I was rehabbing...
Kudos to your Mom, that would make her a tough ol' bird!
Greatest respect for both you and her
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