Interfaith Marriage - legal and safety concerns

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Layla, Aug 30, 2021.

  1. Layla

    Layla New Member

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    I wonder if there are people who have background on possible long terms difficulties and legal issues an Originally Muslim Jordanian female would face for having a civil marriage contract to a Christian European.

    information I could find from research:

    1- In Jordan, one can't legally apostate from Islam, and may have serious consequences as per Sharea Law.

    source HG.ORG

    2- It's illegal for a Muslim female to marry a Christian.

    despite these laws, if a female went ahead and married a Christian abroad through a civil marriage contract, what are possible consequences the Jordanian female would face? let's say if she required to present a document she is married to authorities in Jordan, or if someone in Jordan made a complaint on her marrying out of faith, or her being accused of apostacy.

    Thank you
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    There are archaic laws in many countries around the world. Bigotry, racism, and religious edicts like this are to me simply signs of fear and lack...when you have to pass laws or call things a sin, ostracize, or ban folks that leave the fold. The problem is not tje individual but the organization.

    If your religions ideals and tenets are not naturally drawing more people in than the exodus...look within.
     
  3. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Thank you @Layla

    On the understanding that many readers do not open links, I have copied and pasted the content of the article:

    https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/apostate-from-islam-in-jordan-22836

    Apostate from Islam in Jordan
    Effects of apostate from Islam (Convert from Islam).


    In the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, as you were Muslim and left your religion of Islam to Christianity, this is considered as apostate from Islam, and this is confirmed by the decision of the Cassation court in Jordan No. 3574/ 2005.

    It is illegal that you apostate from Islam; accordingly an apostasy case can be filed by any Muslim person against you any time, and this case shall be filed before the Sharie Court. This is confirmed by the decision which was issued by the Sharie court in Jordan No. 1136/43107 in 30 of June 1997.

    According to article 21 of the law of formatting the legal courts No. 19 year 1972; the decisions of the Al-Share&a Appeal Courts are considered final and cannot be challenged.

    Kindly note that it is still possible that any Muslim person in Jordan believes that you apostate from Islam to file an apostasy case.

    First:

    According to the advisable opinion issued by the Jordanian public Fatwa under the No. 7 dated 14 July 1986 :

    " ..3- The apostate from Islam deserves to be killed according to Share&a if he did not come back to his religion "the Islam", accordingly his family shall deal with him as a dead man."

    Also according to the advisable opinion issued by the Jordanian public Fatwa under the No. 237 dated 28 May 2009:
    "The apostate Muslim shall be asked to repent and come back to Islam, and if he repent and come back to Islam then his repent shall be accepted and he will not be killed because of his apostate from Islam."

    Also, please note that the decision of the cassation court in Jordan No. 3574/2005 which was issued in 4 October 2006 stated:

    (…The person who apostate from Islam is not recognized in any other religion but Islam, and shall be forced to come back to Islam within three days, and if he did not come back to his religion " the Islam", then he deserved to be killed if he was a Muslim man, and if the person is a woman she will not be killed but she will be asked to repent and come back to Islam.)

    Also the book titled " The personal status in Civil rights, inheritance and wills" which was written by Dr. Mustafa Alsiba'ei and Dr. Abed Al-Rahman Al Sabouni in 1965 in stated the page 461 of it: " …the scientist of Islam fully agreed that who apostate from Islam shall be asked to repent, and he shall be left for some days in order to change his mind, but if he insisted to apostate he shall be killed.

    But please note that according to the law in Jordan, killing is not allowed for this reason.

    Second:

    If any person convert from Islam to Christianity, he will be considered as he do not belong to any religion even you are Christine.

    According to the advisable opinion issued by the Jordanian public Fatwa department under the No. 7 dated 14 July 1986:

    "The apostate person from Islam will have no jurisdiction over his children, as he shall be out of his Muslim family because of the apostate from Islam."

    The decision of the cassation court in Jordan No. 3574/2005 which was issued in 4 October 2006 stated : "... The religion of Islam do not force the people to belong to it, but if the person who was Muslim apostate from Islam, then shall be considered as a person who do not belong to any religion else.."

    " … The apostate from Islam after being a Muslim becomes as a person who do don’t belong to any religion"
    Also according to the decision which was issued by the Sharieya court in Jordan No. 21394 dated 21 of April 1980:
    " The apostate from Islam is not recognized by Islam, and if he belong to another religion " Not Islam" he becomes without any religion because he will be considered as a person who do not belong to any religion."

    Also according to the decision which was issued by the Sharieya court in Jordan No. 1136/43107 dated 14 of July 1997:
    "It is not permissible in Islam religion that Muslims apostate from Islam and convert to any other religion, and Islam do not recognize the apostate Muslim who covert to another religion and consider him as a person who do not belong to any religion."

    According to the advisable opinion issued by the Jordanian public Fatwa department under the No. 10:
    "According to Islam religion the person who changes his religion shall be considered as apostate, and his new religion which he converts to it shall not be recognized by the Islam."

    Third:

    who would covert from Islam will lose his right in inheritance as well.

    The decision of the cassation court in Jordan No. 3574/2005 which was issued in 4 October 2006 stated: "The apostate person from Islam does not inherit from the Muslim or anyone else".

    Also according to the decision which was issued by the Sharieya court in Jordan No. 1136/43107 dated 14 of July 1997:
    "The apostate person does not inherit from his Muslim parents…and the result of apostate from Islam is preventing the apostate person from his right in the inheritance"

    Fourth:

    Who covert from Islam will lose his right to marry any Muslim woman in Jordan, taking into consideration that the majority of people in Jordan are Muslim.

    Also it is worth mentioning that apostate man from Islam loses his right to marry a Muslim woman and this is established in article 33 of "the Jordanian Code of personal status which stated that the marriage of Muslim woman with not-Muslim man shall be considered void.

    And it is worth mentioning that Muslim man has the right in Jordan to marry a Christian woman. It is worth mentioning that the Jordanian Muslim person who apostate from Islam is not excuse in ignorance of the Islamic ruling and/or the law in Jordan.

    Finally, from the social side, many people who convert from Islam to Christianity faced a real social problems, that their family left them and they lost their inheritance as well, and they also lost the respect from Muslim people. And as you know that no Muslim family would accept that you marry a Muslim woman.

    I believe that you from the socially side in Jordan, it is not acceptable at all that you apostate from Islam to Christianity.

    By Arida Law Firm, Jordan
    Law Firm Website: https://aridalegal.com
     
  4. Layla

    Layla New Member

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    Thank you Wil. I agree.

    until systems evolve, the question here is what are the consequences one would possibly face if he/she doesn't follow the principles and laws of a certain country, in this case, Jordan.

    reason is not to go back in line, but to be aware and be safe from the threat's of the system.
     
  5. Layla

    Layla New Member

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    Thank you Corbet.
     
  6. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I believe that Allah (peace be upon him) states unequivocally in the Quran that 'There is no compulsion in religion' (2:256) yet later hadith have commented this only applies to those who have never converted to Islam, and not to apostates from Islam?
     
  7. Layla

    Layla New Member

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    Islam -in my opinion- has several contradictions, like other religions. so there is this verse that you mentioned that states there is no compulsion in religion, but there is a hadith that says if one apostate from Islam then he is to be killed. Muslim scholars can find justifications for these contradictions.

    I personally think if there is an intelligent creator of the universe who is interested to connect to us, he will probably send his message in era that has technology to capture it, and will have it clear enough that it does not need "scholars" to interpret it.

    The question here is not about Islam , it is merely to find people who know if these written laws in Jordan that if followed may get you killed or deprived from your civil rights, actually happen on the ground.

    small note, the phrase (peace be upon him) is used for Muhammad, who Muslims believe is the messenger of god. there is no (peace be upon him) that follows "Allah" :)
     
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  8. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Welcome to the forums, Layla!

    I do not have first hand experience, but for example in Germany, where I live, the civil authorities typically have extensive know-how, especially in larger cities, and it would be possible to get a good overview of the ramifications of a civil marriage in Germany, from the local "citizen center" (Bürgeramt).

    Also, there are lawyers specializing in such cases, who will consult. In Germany, lawyer's fees are standardized.

    I would think the situation to be similar in most European countries.

    Best to get dependable advice from lawyers and authorities. I would not want to depend on legal advice from internet forums.
     
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  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    The laws have written consequences. To instigate change someone has to refuse to go to the back of the bus. Interfaith marriages were often frowned upon a hundred and even 50 years ago in US..then there waa the fight fkrnjnterracial marriages.amd then same sex marriages....but we have been lower to eliminate juvenile marriages...go figure

    You must just be aware early adopters make waves, headlines and are often made examples of.
     
  10. Layla

    Layla New Member

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    Thank you Cino
     
  11. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Thank you. I'll remember that
    :)
     
  12. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  13. Layla

    Layla New Member

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  14. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    Hi Layla, welcome to the forums. :) You could do worse than this place... There are some very smart people here. In my time here I have seen some very perplexing questions asked, only to have the poster answer his/her own question after a short period of contemplation. That's how sharp the people here are.

    I can't answer your questions about Jordanian law, but pulling from my own tradition we have this little thing of: what God has joined together, let not man put asunder. When God/Allah has joined two souls together, there is very little that can stand in their way, since God/Allah is the highest authority in all of creation and beyond.

    That doesn't mean it will be a bed of roses, but if the conviction that it is "right" remains in the heart of these souls, love will find a way.
     
  15. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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  16. Layla

    Layla New Member

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    Thank you for increasing my hope in finding an answer here lol

    Your words on love finding its way, had a calm warming effect. human laws is changing what it should feel like a happy time to more a time of stress.

    so thank you for your kind words :)
     
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  17. Layla

    Layla New Member

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