Civil Liberties my ****

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Thomas, Dec 20, 2021.

  1. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I'd go further than that.
    I'm not in favour of asking the police to go around checking on people's "papers",
    to see if they are virus-free / vaccinated or what have you.

    I certainly don't agree with the vaccinated having marks on their foreheads etc. etc.
     
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  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Lol... I seen mark of the polio beast on many people!
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    When I was in Alaska in tje 80s it was called attempted murder if you passed up a hitch hiker in the winter.

    Like when someone has AIDS and has unprotected sex with someone without telling them.

    I see the current situation as analagous, people are choosing to infect and kill others. We have our current best solution.

    Wear your seatbelt folks...we are in for a ride...first omicron death in US and 70% of new cases already.
     
  4. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    It's always the self-righteous who accuse others without warrant.
    Some people undoubtedly behave irresponsibly.
    ..and it's not confined to the unvaccinated, that's for sure.
     
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  5. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Two things:

    1: We've lost sight of the points I made about the bills passing thru parliament, which are the real assault on civil liberties.

    2: Where does social responsibility come into the debate?
     
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  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I think when the vaxxes were available...

    Funny how little it takes to get many to change their tune...for some it is a respirator...for others a 25$ gift card
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    My point here is those people demonstrating against the vaccine/masks/ lockdown etc., would be forbidden from so doing under proposed legislation, unless it suited the government's interest that they do so.

    They don't see the dangers, the people passing the legislation make sure there's plenty of other stuff to distract them.
     
  8. plouton6

    plouton6 Well-Known Member

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    One of the tragedies of these days.

    There are people in Brazil protesting because they want to return to a totalitarian regime. How stupid is that?
     
  9. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Same here in Germany. The (non-funny) joke around here is that they are uttering a cry for love.
     
  10. Snoopy

    Snoopy Well-Known Member

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    You need to move to a country with a fit-for-purpose democracy!
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Hey, Snoopy!

    You can say that again. I have an Irish passport, and now my kids are looking into getting dual nationality, too.

    On a more serious note, it's interesting that the mechanisms that are in place to ensure fit-for-purpose government rely on a certain set of moral values. If it happens that the person in charge does not live by said values, then the mechanisms reveal themselves to be woefully inadequate.
     
  12. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I believe the Irish Home Office is closed for more passport applications at the moment, until they can clear the existing backlog
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Don't we know it!
     
  14. Unveiled artist

    Unveiled artist Real life Dolls

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    I know I'm new, but I thought I'd throw a perspective. It's like denying people to enter a shoe store because the company feels some of its customers (regardless who they are, where they from, their background, etc) may be carrying a gun. So, the fear that the company (and employees and managers) have is influencing who can go into their store and who cannot.

    While statistics can generalize a population that majority of people "will" have guns unless they get a search warrant before going into a shoe store, unless it's the government (depending) or something similar, it's highly unwarranted. Businesses should do their own assessment of risk.

    The context is: don't enter this restaurant because you "may" have a disease.

    It's based on fear and probability rather than an actual breach in a policy. That's why it's bad because the government and business owners can use (or be influenced by) fear insofar it harms American society. The greater good should be keeping a running society not just currently but as a long-term goal as well. COVID is a current problem, but joblessness is a long-term one. Majority of people recover from COVID but not so much being homeless.

    This is just my opinion, though. I have strong ones but nothing criminal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
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  15. Unveiled artist

    Unveiled artist Real life Dolls

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    Respirator I can understand. I mean, if I got sick I'd take the medicine the doctor prescribed. However, a gift card. Now that is what people are really upset about-not the vaccination per se, but the intentions and incentives to push it. Less about the point and more about the procedure.
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Naw it is the same as no shoes no shirt no service...

    A general safety issue.

    What I want to know is what folks think the end game of the govts around.the world is to spend trillions to save our lives and economies?

    What conspiracy has anyone cooked up to make that reasonable?
     
  17. Ella S.

    Ella S. Logoic Logician

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    They've set precedent for setting curfew, making entire specific regions stay indoors, preventing flights large-scale to general segments of the population, used this as an excuse to develop tracking apps that can give a probability of infection (which could also be used to measure the potential transmission of "radical ideas" from those who are known to hold certain ideologies,) and forced people to get specific biological augmentations (the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment comes to mind here)

    There's no end to the ways the control mechanisms set forward will be used to abuse people. Not can be. Will be. They've already started abusing them in China, unbenknownst to the Chinese citizens. The question is only what degree they will be abused by our own governments.

    Nobody actually cares about us. The pharmaceutical companies who manufacture the vaccines are making a fortune off your tax dollars and didn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts, either. They're the people in power. All they care about is expanding and maintaining their control.

    At best, they're trying to preserve the underclass because they're aware that somebody has to make the bottles their champagne comes in.
     
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  18. Ella S.

    Ella S. Logoic Logician

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    I want to make it clear after my last post; yes, the pandemic is real. Yes, it is just as bad as it's being depicted, perhaps worse. Yes, the vaccines do actually work. Yes, wearing a mask and staying 6 feet apart really can dramatically decrease the chances of transmitting this horrific disease.

    But the rich and the powerful would let us all die slow, horrible deaths if intervening didn't benefit them and they will seek out as many ways to benefit themselves at our expense that they can. About 1 in 4 CEOs are psychopaths.

    If they were willing to sacrifice their own power for our sake, then they would quickly find themselves using up all of their money and influence and they wouldn't be in power anymore. That's just how politics has worked since before written history.
     
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  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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  20. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    And this is the right of admission reserved by any business. It is not for Gvt to dictate who a private business may admit. It's up to them to choose how to run their own business? An individual can choose not to enter? Personal choice, in a free world ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
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